Our titan

[Hugorak]

do you like him?

[Illysa]

Takes some getting used to with him phasing out every time he gets damaged, but once you get used to it, it can be very useful.

The most useful thing I've found so far is using him to pound on the UD shrine. The one damage from the shrine phases him out when their turn starts, and you just phase him back in on your turn and pound away.

Overall, I think he's solid, and I'll probably keep using him in at least my KF/IS bg, but not as good as I'd hoped, especially when compared to the FW or ST titans.

[Ajvanden]

I am looking forward to working with KF.
I think this Titan is one of the strongest, especially Titan vs. Titan. With our speed boost, and that the other titan can only hit once/turn, I think we are way out ahead.

[Geoscience]

right now at least, i don't really see a spot for him in the BG. He's 50% yes 50% no to me. I just can't place him anywhere decent in a FF KF. By the time he gets out due to the sick noracost i've probably dealt with the worst attacks and survived and thus the win is mine regardless of which highnora cost champ i pull out of my butt.

Edit: He is wicked against UD, i agree. But that's it. Against any BG that does not run UD i'd run menalaus over him time over time. Regulate is there to make life hard for UD, i haven't been able to fit it into my BG yet, but once i do, it'll be my anti-UD spell and i won't really need that titan to mess UD up.

[ilves]

right now at least, i don't really see a spot for him in the BG. He's 50% yes 50% no to me. I just can't place him anywhere decent in a FF KF. By the time he gets out due to the sick noracost i've probably dealt with the worst attacks and survived and thus the win is mine regardless of which highnora cost champ i pull out of my butt.

Edit: He is wicked against UD, i agree. But that's it. Against any BG that does not run UD i'd run menalaus over him time over time. Regulate is there to make life hard for UD, i haven't been able to fit it into my BG yet, but once i do, it'll be my anti-UD spell and i won't really need that titan to mess UD up.

regulate will mess up any faction as it gives them 8 speed... i've been told that is applied before bonus so all KF units will still have 10 speed. That's a pretty huuuge advantage in any situations.

[Geoscience]

I'm pretty pissed off at the KF Titan atm.

I've lost 2 games because he gets stuck. With a short time to finish each round it really gets stressing when you've got a few units out and/or have to think through some tactical moves.

If it just slips your mind that if you go corp. form on top of unpassable terrain (which you can hover over as incorp.) your titan will be stuck for the rest of that game. He's planar bound so you can forget swapping, relocating and vortexing him and as such you actually lose a game because you just threw 110 nora down the drain.

He's so situational, that deploying him against some factions/decks, is like giving them a huge round globe of nora for free. The "turn into a ghost" when hit by an attack is just as much a pain as it is of use when you play against someone who obvously knows how to toy with the titan's CORE ability.

Seriously ******ed, i think i'll rather use that veasel. I swear he's a more useful melee champ overall.

[jimmie1982]

I'm pretty pissed off at the KF Titan atm.

I've lost 2 games because he gets stuck. With a short time to finish each round it really gets stressing when you've got a few units out and/or have to think through some tactical moves.

If it just slips your mind that if you go corp. form on top of unpassable terrain (which you can hover over as incorp.) your titan will be stuck for the rest of that game. He's planar bound so you can forget swapping, relocating and vortexing him and as such you actually lose a game because you just threw 110 nora down the drain.

He's so situational, that deploying him against some factions/decks, is like giving them a huge round globe of nora for free. The "turn into a ghost" when hit by an attack is just as much a pain as it is of use when you play against someone who obvously knows how to toy with the titan's CORE ability.

Seriously ******ed, i think i'll rather use that veasel. I swear he's a more useful melee champ overall.

I disagree, I love him man. He will be hard for most BGs to even touch. As far as being stuck, brambles or NW him to free him up, he will auto cleanse too ;)

[Kryptas]

Scratch that, I LOVE our titan almost as much as I love jimmie. Score! http://poxnora.com/trader/viewtrade.do?id=957037

[Leath07]

He is without a doubt the worst titan, once people learn that you just hit him once a turn and ignore him he'll be shoeboxed. The main problem is the AP cost to corporeal... 3AP it basically makes him a 7spd champ for those who know how to play against him.

[TerranZerg]

I'm pretty pissed off at the KF Titan atm.

I've lost 2 games because he gets stuck.

If it just slips your mind that if you go corp. form on top of unpassable terrain (which you can hover over as incorp.) your titan will be stuck for the rest of that game. He's planar bound so you can forget swapping, relocating and vortexing him and as such you actually lose a game because you just threw 110 nora down the drain.

I don't want to be mean, but you have to be smart enough to make sure that doesn't happen. If you do moves like that, then please don't bash a rune because of your bad play mistakes.

[Geoscience]

I don't want to be mean, but you have to be smart enough to make sure that doesn't happen. If you do moves like that, then please don't bash a rune because of your bad play mistakes.

I don't want to be mean either, but there are functions that prevent stupid things like that from happening with error messages on a lot of things, it would not be too much to ask.
Also, without knowing excactly whats impassable and not when you're controlling a corporeal champ across the area of a new map or when being highly pressured because you've got enough champs out to make it very hard managing them all within the 1.45 timer.

"You can not shift to corporeal form on impassable terrain" or something similar would be all that needs be done to fix the bull****.


With that said the problem about the titan being completely worthless if the opponent has the means to mess around with him (a plain ranged hero will do the trick) and as above mentioned, with the AP cost to corp. form, you've got little to no use of that hero attackwise the round after he's ben turned incorp. unless you throw him a Battle Hymn + Drive from the charmer and bard.

Now, i do understand that you might believe it's because i've had bad experience with the rune. But i've been asking for the incorp/corp crap to be modified/fixed since i saw it on Beta.


When you can not utilize the hero to it's fullest, be it because of the lack of AP (3ap might very well make the difference between a kill or leaving the opposing champ to do even more damage) or the fact that you can't truly use him as the main offensive tank (unless of course there are physical only champs in your way, but if this is the case the opponent will deploy a magical champ or similar as youve just spent 110 nora on yours, he should be able to spend some nora on one too.


And don't forget, the Titan is not invulnerable to physical, only while he's incorp, so he can easily be 2 rounded by a opposing player with only 1 magical champ and perhaps 1 damaging spell or two.


When all comes down to all. The opponent being able to toy with the champ, throwing him into incorp. form and forcing you to either attack, or go corp.form and do nothing/retreat because leaving him in incorp. form will damage him and you don't want that.


I don't mean to be rude either, but back your arguments up with some straight facts. This is not a " i don't know how to use my Titan" type of discussion. If your titan can be toyed with so easily, then he is not that useful.


Bottomline is: For a champion to make it into a competetive deck nowadays he must have a function. Without a key function he may very well be replaced (and i believe a enraged grizzly would make for a much better choice as i'd be able to replace my stealth detecter which really is not that useful when i got Tree Spider to undetect flying stealthers and have an additional runeslot free.

The Titan is probably a fun Champion in AG and when you can fool around like sending him on the UD shrine which makes him incorp. by the start of the opponents turn etc. But you won't see that happen a lot. Even if you do there are still 7 other factions around which are more effective. It's a plain fact that UD is probably the weakest faction against the Ancestral Avenger which might make it seem like he's awesome to you.

Edit: Also. For a faction which just got a relic giving swap to nearby champs and having relocate and vortex being planarbound is more of a burden than it is of use. Run the Titan in your DoW BG and try to win when youve blown a bunch of nora on him. Fights you've more or less won before you deploy him do not count.

[myAlt1]

When I tested him in beta, I found him to be very lacking in the damage due to paying 6 ap for the first attack. This makes him seem really slow.

What I did find though, is he pairs very well with the spirit singer. Cause he is gonna stick around for a few turns. KF also has drive and battle hymn now which can get past the ap loss a bit.

I did find him to be somewhat lackluster when compared to just about any other titan, he just didn't feel very titanish it terms of damage. The 5 hp loss at times makes high health seem lower too. Low damage and what feels like lower health makes him seem weaker than some of the cheap beaters in KF.

Also, any faction with heavy magic damage can just bypass his entire mechanic while you still have to pay 6 ap to attack with the guy. When messing around with KF/FW I found the FW titan even without the carrionlings served better most of the time.

[scrampy]

He seems a bit lower in terms of power compared to other titans

[myAlt1]

Well one nice thing about him is you can set off his ability with damage auras bypassing the loss of life. But it seems to take a lot of effort to make the expensive titan seem worthwhile to play. I can't imagine how his cost justifies playing him over an enraged grizzly if efficiency is important to you.

[lanslord]

well i dun have out titan to play around with, but after reading all that, i feel like i'm not missing out much.. hahah. good thing i got my eleven bard thru trade already. cool~

[Geoscience]

The way the titan is now, he's pretty much worthless for use. In any close game, you will not be wanting to use him, not even close to being efficient.

That aside i would still like to play against KF players who'll use one, just to show them how futile it is.

[sinwind]

He's not bad, not great. Corp form needs an AP cost reduction to 1 or 2, and the HP loss down to 3-4.

Thing is, if you play FFKF, mena will always be your choice when you have 115 nora to spare. Spirit bear has some tough competition.

[pan1x]

Yesterday I spent an hour or two in the Bazaar asking people if they would mind joining an AG game to show whatever titans they got, to see my FW titan, and to just FQ at the end.

As some of you may know, I used to run a Bear Theme BG in DoW, so seeing the new KF titan I figured, well even if it's not THAT good, I'll forget about it and put it in my Bear BG to add flavor.

I forget who obliged and AG-ed with me but I'm glad I got to see him in action. He's horrible, and even though I'm a Bear zealot, I will not be attempting to acquire one any time soon.

My complaints about our Ghostbear:

1) Being a 2x2, you'd think he'd make a pwnshop roadblock, right? Wrong.
Hit him once and stroll the rest of your army right past him, his being incorporeal is both a blessing and a burden. A blessing in the way that you really cannot one-round him unless your magic-heavy. A burden being that you can disengage after attacking, and for reason number 2.

2) 3AP to turn corporeal? Seriously? Give me my first attack for free then kthx. This is a serious downfall. Our ancestral avenger's base speed is 11. With FF KF bringing it to 13 base, you get 8ap a turn. So, with the abilities he has, without saving AP (don't know why you wouldn't, just sharing a scenario), you can move 2 spaces and attack. Gogo 7 effective speed beater. Gimme my mountain garu and enraged grizzlies over this waste any day.

3) 112 nora for a font contestor. That's basically his best role at the current state. Granted he is practically immobile and could be the best font contestor in the game, but 112 nora for just that is a joke. Rascal fairy welcome aboard.

Suggestions (Just some ideas, I know some would be imbalanced, feel free to elaborate on my ideas):

1) Increase his attack range.

2) Maybe give him a claw or bite secondary attack with a low AP cost at melee range. Give this attack a rend effect, it is a bear mauling anyhow.

3) Change his Bastion of Courage, or remove it and give us a huge nora discount. This is his flavor? This is an insult. I can tell you I've never played against a BG that was fear themed. Suggested change - He's a ghost. Give HIM some kind of fear defensive tactic.

4) Go to the premium store, filter for the Nora Surge release, all factions, exotic rarity to view the titans. Okay, go through each of the titans and look at their Details tab. Notice anything different between the Ancestral Avenger and the rest of the titans? Of course you do, flavor. Look at all of the abilities the rest of the titans have compared to our Ancestral Avenger.

Now at this point we all know that our titan isn't on par with the rest, being easy to counter/toy with/kite, and there are much more viable beaters to put in your 10/10 or FF KF, but let's look at the bright side.

His sprite and art both look cool.

I may add to my venting later if someone brings up any more valid points, but my conclusion is that he's a shoeboxer at the moment, and if you have one, do yourself a favor and try to trade him off for a different titan before other people read this thread and figure out how bad he actually is.

[snow1wolf]

I agree the KF titan is lacking in sheer terms of offesne but it is without a doubt the most defensive and long lasting titan in the game.

KF is a faction full of healing your titan cannot be massed targeted like other titans and champions so you have lots of time to heal him and keep him healed.

When we are talking about such a sizeable investment you better really hope it is gonna last.

[Geoscience]

I agree the KF titan is lacking in sheer terms of offesne but it is without a doubt the most defensive and long lasting titan in the game.

KF is a faction full of healing your titan cannot be massed targeted like other titans and champions so you have lots of time to heal him and keep him healed.

When we are talking about such a sizeable investment you better really hope it is gonna last.

such a sizeable investment should be perfectly able to carry its own weight. Devs better fix him.

[LordKinjo]

I was complaining when I didn't have one, then a friend (Thanks again SSH!) found me one.

I was expecting him to be in his pre nerf state. I was away for the weekend when the nerf happened, then all of a sudden, the release, and he's nerfed.

Honestly, he dropped right out of my BG. I played some with him, but he's just not that good. I'd rather have the SL, ST, FS or FW Titans. Seems they didn't want to make KF have a good unit. Bard got nerfed, Spider got nerfed, Titan got nerfed.

Whatever, story of KF's life. Give us something good....nerf it. Live with it. I'm fine with it. I'd rather fight for my wins instead of having walks in the park like FS, FW or now (again) SP.

[lanslord]

once again, not missing out~~ =)

[Grumz]

How was it pre-nerf?

[Sopbucket]

Originally, it took no damage while it was incorporeal.

[Leath07]

The damage is not the big problem (well its not great to take it on turn 1 - I think thats a bug deploy - take 5 damage is hardly fair)... its the ap cost to shift form. That should be free or base form should be corporeal and it only costs to go incorporeal (or from damage). The cost to go incorporeal should be 5hp...

[ilves]

Originally, it took no damage while it was incorporeal.

wait it takes damage besides magical as incorporeal? isn't that the whole point of the ability?

[jimmie1982]

wait it takes damage besides magical as incorporeal? isn't that the whole point of the ability?

Yes, but now he suffers a penalty (loss of 5 hp, not damage) while in Incorporeal at the end of your turn. So he is being penalized for his potentially best feature.

[Zetsu12]

I dont see it as being a good rune but I may be wrong since I have yet to try it out

[pan1x]

Are the greens even contemplating fixing him? Do we need a petition thread? It's rediculous imo.

[lanslord]

was just thinking how unfair it is that Firk Botanist gets away with no AP/HP loss after going incorporeal..

[myAlt1]

Are the greens even contemplating fixing him? Do we need a petition thread? It's rediculous imo.

Make a petition and i'll sign it.

I have BG idea from beta that is all set up and waiting for either the KF or FW titan being comparable to the ST titan. Unfortunately, neither is worth the time it took to make the sprite.

[OSUFan777]

Well if a petition gets up and going, I will sign it as well.

[pan1x]

Petition going up.

[heroex77]

i hate my ansesteral avenger.. i like FW's one cuz even if i take it out in 1 turn theres like 10 noodles all over the place