more nerfs to SP.

[Typhrex]

So the titan got nerfed again. Whats next then, rock tarp? If SP keeps on going like this the faction will be useless. Many stuff got nerfed in SP ex: slag, fesh, clay form , titan, ghern thrower. The only good news we got is that savage boar is now also a moga but that wont help, we need to give suggestions on how SP can get playable again.

[Moles1909]

imo SP got a big boost this expansion, i honestly cant see what you've got to complain about (non moga)

[Bakamono]

I don't get it, what got nerfed?

[Sammich]

So the titan got nerfed again. Whats next then, rock tarp? If SP keeps on going like this the faction will be useless. Many stuff got nerfed in SP ex: slag, fesh, clay form , titan, ghern thrower. The only good news we got is that savage boar is now also a moga but that wont help, we need to give suggestions on how SP can get playable again.

Goddamnit, I need my rock tarp to protect my rock picnic!

[Typhrex]

LOL. Dont you know that voil refuge got nerfed? And that clay forms cost increased by 15 nora? K SP got some goos stuff but it ain't enough.

[Nitebane21]

Yeah, clay form is cool, but with his super high cost I find him often sitting in my runedock.

Sucks that refuge got nerfed. I'll take your now worthless titan off your hands for you. ;)

[sokolov]

... that clay forms cost increased by 15 nora? K SP got some goos stuff but it ain't enough.

Don't you know that Clay Form originally had much worse stats and costed another 2 additional nora? Of course not, it was made better before beta.

I kind of wish there was no beta sometimes, just so people couldn't say a rune got nerfed before it was released to the live servers.

[Nitebane21]

Aside from speed and maybe hp and def, his stats don't really matter. He does 0 damage. Until he does his transform deal, he is totally useless. While his ability is damn good, 85 nora is a lot.

[sokolov]

And all those stats were worse. He was much more readily killed AND costed more than he does now. But who cares... he was nerfed in beta, and that's all that matters.

[Nitebane21]

Ouch. Regardless, I still think he's a little overcosted in his current state for 85 nora.

[maudlin27]

OUCH, just noticed the clay form nerf. That was a big one - +15 nora cost? I'd have thought +10 would have been enough. I'm not sure I can come up with a trick deck where he'd be preferable to grimlic's mirror now :( (not to say there aren't any, just that grimlic's is better in the majority of situations).

[Sammich]

*sigh* He drops with 9 speed, so unlike Grimmie's, he's not a dead first draw. He can copy your opponent's champs. He copies comes-into-play effects wherever he is (just had a game where I won because I was able to finish off a Dead Fairy by Taking its Form within range to hit it, getting Initiative in the middle of the map so I could blast it). He is generally more versatile than Grimlic's Mirror, can't be countered, and has a melty face. He is quite good where he is.

Anyway. The only nerf that's come since Beta is to Take Refuge, which might be reversed. The Slag was way over the freaking top, and it's STILL better than it was before it was uberbuffed (and still quite runnable, especially if you do a Battlefiend build with it). The Fesh got some weird tangential nerfs when they had to remove the "stops on-death triggers" mechanic, which was actually just a functional issue; it was tragic, but there's a chance Cleanse is changing, so he may get a substantial buff. I already addressed Clay Form. The Thrower was over-neutered, but that's really the only example you gave that I agree did actual harm to the faction from a playability standpoint. I'm actually amazed you didn't bring up the moga tax.

Voil are way better than they used to be, and as Hash is showing, are top-tier (no matter how he complains about the Titan, he's still whupping butts). The faction bonus is better than it used to be. The Mountain Lion is waaay better, and for some reason continues to get better. The Pit Wolf is significantly more efficient and deadly than it used to be. The Overlord became playable when they unlinked Ally and Foe. Moga are decidedly runnable now with Infest, the new Mogahern and (if you decide to run him) the Battlefiend, even with the tax in place.

Yes, SP's taken nerfs. So has every other faction. Ever hear of Boghopper Finlord? Or how about the Disturbed Spirit? Both used to be insanely rampant, and yet now you see Kartch maybe half the time, and the Spirit sits squarely in the shoebox. It happens. Now, there are some I think were overnerfs, like the moga tax, but things seem to be shaking out alright.

SP has not been targeted, Octopi is not out to get you, and your name isn't Mulder. Roll with it.

[Typhrex]

*sigh* He drops with 9 speed, so unlike Grimmie's, he's not a dead first draw. He can copy your opponent's champs. He copies comes-into-play effects wherever he is (just had a game where I won because I was able to finish off a Dead Fairy by Taking its Form within range to hit it, getting Initiative in the middle of the map so I could blast it). He is generally more versatile than Grimlic's Mirror, can't be countered, and has a melty face. He is quite good where he is.

Anyway. The only nerf that's come since Beta is to Take Refuge, which might be reversed. The Slag was way over the freaking top, and it's STILL better than it was before it was uberbuffed (and still quite runnable, especially if you do a Battlefiend build with it). The Fesh got some weird tangential nerfs when they had to remove the "stops on-death triggers" mechanic, which was actually just a functional issue; it was tragic, but there's a chance Cleanse is changing, so he may get a substantial buff. I already addressed Clay Form. The Thrower was over-neutered, but that's really the only example you gave that I agree did actual harm to the faction from a playability standpoint. I'm actually amazed you didn't bring up the moga tax.

Voil are way better than they used to be, and as Hash is showing, are top-tier (no matter how he complains about the Titan, he's still whupping butts). The faction bonus is better than it used to be. The Mountain Lion is waaay better, and for some reason continues to get better. The Pit Wolf is significantly more efficient and deadly than it used to be. The Overlord became playable when they unlinked Ally and Foe. Moga are decidedly runnable now with Infest, the new Mogahern and (if you decide to run him) the Battlefiend, even with the tax in place.

Yes, SP's taken nerfs. So has every other faction. Ever hear of Boghopper Finlord? Or how about the Disturbed Spirit? Both used to be insanely rampant, and yet now you see Kartch maybe half the time, and the Spirit sits squarely in the shoebox. It happens. Now, there are some I think were overnerfs, like the moga tax, but things seem to be shaking out alright.

SP has not been targeted, Octopi is not out to get you, and your name isn't Mulder. Roll with it.

k , so SP isn't that bad but still SP still needs some buff mostly moga and ghern

[Nitebane21]

Moga tax? What is that? And they unlinked relocate? I didn't see either thing mentioned in release notes. (I can't test everything!)

I didn't realize clay form took the "in-play" abilities as well. Nice. I still think he is overcosted, but only slightly.

[Sammich]

Once, in the before time, in the long-long ago, Moga were all 5 nora cheaper. They were insanely efficient, and the best were over the top. So... they instituted an across the board 5 nora cost increase for everything with g'hernbound. And the masses wept. To date, still the worst mass nerf the game has seen.

Relocate Foe and Ally were unlinked a few months ago.

[Nitebane21]

Oh, right I knew about that. 2 of my friends were moga players and quit because of it.

As for unlinking, interesting. The text didn't change...

[maudlin27]

Once, in the before time, in the long-long ago, Moga were all 5 nora cheaper. They were insanely efficient, and the best were over the top.

Just to quibble, it was actually by more than 5 nora. The latest 5 nora nerf came at a time that moga were generally deemed to finally be at a competitive but not overpowered level (and the nerf saw many decent but not great runes relegated to near-shoebox status). I've lost track of all the cumulative nerfs over time though, you had the ones around the time of the fruity moga decks (slight stat boost, slightly greater nora cost increase), some other nerf during DoW (+5 nora? I probably put it down somewhere on the old forums :s), another nerf around the time of SR I think (not officially published IIRC, some moga suddenly suffered base cost increases I think), and then of course the +5 nora cost nerf.

[Sammich]

...I'm not going crazy, am I? Someone go play with one, find out. Maybe I'm being nuts...

[lljkBingo]

Relocate: ally and foe are still linked.

[Sammich]

Okay, wow, I'm going nuts. Maybe that's something pending somewheres... or maybe I've just mentioned it a lot. Meh, not that the Strategist needs it....

[hashinshin]

Whoa.

Recolate ally and foe are unlinked ?

[Bellagion]

Whoa.

Recolate ally and foe are unlinked ?
They're still linked for me. :\

[fireball94]

I think Sammich is just babbling what he wants things to be like.

[Raileks]

As cool as that would make my overlords who I run anyway with the link.... strategist really don't need it.

[MageSeth]

Nevermind, reread it.