UD BG that has been working Great for me

[Shadow969]

Since the UD faction is always on the lower end of the Drums of War scoreboard, I thought it would be nice of me to post my FF UD BG that has been winning me many more games than I lose. I would like the UD faction to get stronger and I wish Octopi would give us more to work with but we gotta make due with what we got until the next expansion. Hopefully, some of you can take my ideas and work them into better BG's and maybe give me some insight on improving my own.

First off I want to say that I love the Underdepths faction and for some reason there is a great thrill using demons that pack tons of damage. I assume that's why most of us play UD.

Champions:
2x Deep Elf Priestess - 78 Nora, Multi-Attack 1, Beckon Demon, Poison 1, 11spd, +6 HP
- Our standard unit. This wonderful rune does it all. Two hits for 6 ap. Magic attack at 2-4 range. Shatter! Poison for a little extra bonus. Most Importantly...Beckon.

2x Scorched Dwarf - 19 Nora, Nora Miner 2
- I keep them cheap. As they should be. If you are spending the nora to make this guy a shrine healer then I think its a waste. We do at most 10 damage with volatile. Why have this guy sit there to repair the 10 damage?

1x Imp - 66 Nora, 11spd, +6 HP
- Our ultimate sneakster. I position him where it makes the difference for a kill versus an almost dead enemy. Also great, for stealing fonts and just being annoying. Keep him cheap because he isn't a major player.

1x Nefari Dragon - 80 Nora, Flamestrike 3, Fire Resistance 3, Vuln. Frost, 11 spd, +6 HP
- For 80 Nora you have a solid tank that can flamestrike for some serious hurt. I know he can't be beckoned but he can fly and that is a huge plus.

1x Nefari Messenger - 80 Nora, 11 spd, +6 HP, Regen 2
- Probably one of our best champs ever and I vote for best diplomat. Drive makes the difference from one attack to two. Regen makes her surviveable. High damage, all for 80 nora. I couldn't ask for more. She gets a spot for demon shield.

1x Sheoul Demon - 84 Nora, 11 Spd, Vuln. Frost
- My main tank and one of the best tanks in the game. Horrific aura helps him move in. 19 damage is nuts. Tons of health. Fire eater keeps him alive against those pesky firestorms.

1x Grimlic - 100 Nora, 11 Spd, +4 HP, Fire Bomb 2, Regen 1
- Just started using him and I'm glad I did. Our numero uno range striker. Massive damage. Illusions are fun. I keep him cheap for a first turn drop.

1x LE Demon Lich - 100 Nora, 11 Spd, +6 HP, Swarm: Deep Elf Skeleton, Life Drinker
- I know a lot of people don't like him. But with demon shield he is very surviveable. Life drinker ensures it. The skeletons are massive hitters with multi-attack and 9 speed. This guy is great for endgame and has helped me win many games.

Spells:
2x Acrid Smoke
- When playing against non-UD factions this spell is absolutely great. Its lets us run in, smoke them blind then pound in some heavy damage the next turn.

1x Fire Blast
- Good AOE. Weakens large groups. Can heal the Sheoul Demon. Cheap and effective.

1x Retribution
- This is our titan killer. Every UD player should get there hands on this. I will weaken a titan then cast this to make sure he's a done deal. Plus, it's a great feeling to know that you can almost insta kill any time you want.

1x Sacrifice
- One is enough. Because we can't heal its nice to get our nora back for an almost dead champ. Running 2 is too many because most skilled players will make sure your champ doesn't survive far enough to get sacrificed. Plus I got my dwarf's to pump out nora.

1x Shatter
- Many wonder why I run this. I think its stupid not to. Every BG out there has equipment in it. So why not have an auto equipment destroy for 20 nora. This rune has honestly made the difference in a win or loss for many games.

Equipment:
2x Demon Shield
- Personally, the best equipment in the game. Poxnora is dominated by great range attackers and this makes them useless. I usually save this for my demon lich and messenger. Sometimes I put it on the priestess if she needs it.

Relics:
1x Mark of Sheoul
- In full faction this is a must. The small bonuses and +5HP help out in the long run and the nora refund makes our expensive champs that much cheaper.

1x Mind Slicer Obelisk
- Gives UD that extra needed protection against ranger heavy decks. The Obelisk keeps most ranged shooters to one shot a turn instead of two. That is huge in the long run. Because the longer our heavy hitters live, the more massive damage we can pump out.

I hope you guys like my BG and everyone is welcome to comment/criticize. Thanks!

P.s. I don't like any of the UD Nora Surge runes. I don't think any of them are competitive enough. Blood letter is cool but weak and expensive. The altar is a waste of good space. I don't know much about the titan except that he is very expensive. I think the key to any good BG is keeping the nora cost down as much as we can.

[Konger]

Glad you're having some good luck with UD, I don't think UD is in anyway a bad off faction... we're probably ranked at about 4th after this expansion, I think KF will probably overtake us after the runes they got in Nora Surge.

The reason why our score is so low is mostly because of the poor rune choices I see newer players use, and the extra difficulty that UD is to play. That's why I made the new guide.

Hopefully your deck will also help newer players out, but I think part of the problem is that our best runes are all exotics and LE's. Most people that can attain a deck like yours, aren't having too much trouble in the rankings. ;)

Also, just a few notes on my take on your deck. You say that you think champs should be kept at a low price, but I never see the reason to upgrade the Nefari Dragon to 11 speed. He is SO efficient at 9 speed, and his best weapon is his Flamestrike, which you can get off once every 2 turns just fine with 9 speed.

Also, I just can't fathom spending 100 nora on the Demon Lich. If you can really get that many killing blows off with him, then more power to you. Just seems like you're paying 100 nora for a rune your going to keep way in the back, and just beckon in to get killing blows for a Demon Elf Skeleton. I can't imagine getting enough of those a game to justify that price tag.

Running 2x Acrid Smoke seems like it would only be worth the cost against KF and ST, since they'll cleanse the first one, and you'll be able to play the second one the following turn. Otherwise, I've never felt like I ever needed 2 in a deck.

Also can't see the use of running the Shatter spell when you already have two highly playable champs with Shatter on them, seems like another rune that you'll only rarely be getting use out of.

I'm sincerely surprised that you are getting by with just 8 combat champs as well, and only one high damage beater. Only 2 real tanks for Grimlic. Seems like you'd have a very weak late game, and low chances to get the runes you need early on.

I do like your take on the Scorched Dwarfs though. I stopped running mine a while ago because the shrine healing seemed like a waste, and at 28 nora, they weren't earning nora quick enough. 19 nora seems much more efficient, they'll start earning you nora after 3 turns, and without having to worry about repairing your shrine, they'll make nice font guards. Might give it a try.

I think if you make a few tweaks, you'll start doing even better in the higher rankings, good luck!

[ninkobei]

altar comes in very handy in long games. definitely worth more than that 2nd acrid smoke... (it costs too much, there are too many cleanses, and good players know to keep their champs semi-spread out.)

and it looks like you only have 8 real champs...I try to run at least 10 or 11 because of sac/retri. that cant be good for long games..

other then that, it all looks good. Its tough to find room in our UD bgs because we have so many good things. I'm trying to fit in a shatter but I just cant find the place for it..

and I agree with you on the bloodletter..he definitely has a weakness. I just run 1 and I find that to be plenty. He's nice mid-game when you have a priestess or two to beckon him around.

[CryFar]

It sucks. hfkjf

[Shadow969]

I'll pull one acrid smoke for an Altar and pull the demon lich for a pincushion or bloodletter and try them out. Thanks for the input! Especially from Cryfar.

[CryFar]

I'll pull one acrid smoke for an Altar and pull the demon lich for a pincushion or bloodletter and try them out. Thanks for the input! Especially from Cryfar.

I do what I can.

[RasielCZ]

It sucks. hfkjf

what he said

[Sepulcher8]

Not a bad deck, except you have 10 champions....and 2 of them are Scorched Dwarf. How do you avoid situations in which you get screwed for your first 3-4 rune reveals? :\ And the Demon Lich is a bit iffy, but I've never playtested him so I guess I can't say anything.

[Shadow969]

I would say about 1 in 5 games I get screwed on my first turn drop. As for having only 8 combat champs it was never really a problem because I almost always get them out every game and I use those 8 to win with. I noticed every time I ran 11 or 12 champs in a deck, by the time the game was over I didn't use about 3-4 of them. To me its a waste of essential space that could been used on a game changing spell. I just started using Altar of Votaev last night and it helped me beat a ranked 25 player in late game. I used my two scorched dwarfs to walk over my own lava to kill themselfs repeatedly to get my champs out faster than he could. I also took out the Demon Lich for a Pincushion. He is much cheaper and causes a major headache with arrow eater and damage physical 3. I have yet to try the blood letter. I just don't think he syncs well with my bg but he would def. be cool in a spider bg.

I also removed Nefari Dragon (him being a non-demon really hurts) to play test with a Succubus w/ charm 2. I'll let you know what I think.

Updated BG
2x Deep Elf Priestess
2x Scorched Dwarf
1x Imp
1x Pincushion
1x Succubus
1x Sheoul Demon
1x Nefari Messanger
1x Grimlic

1xAcrid Smoke
1xFire Blast
1xRetribution
1xShatter
1xSacrifice

1xMindslicer Obelisk
1xAltar of Votaev
1xMark of Sheoul

2xDemon Shield

[demonmarch]

seems like your average UD deck to me....
all the staple runes nothing new nothing exciting

[xj975]

seems like your average UD deck to me....
all the staple runes nothing new nothing exciting

There isnt really that much new and exciting about UD. Shockingly our builds dont change much from release to release because we are that dependant on our staple runes.

[Shadow969]

Unfortunately for competitive play it's hard to use anything but the proven staples. I would love to eventually play an arachnid theme but I feel like we are one awesome arachnid away from making it playable. Maybe in the next expansion they can create a leaping spider with magic bomb and cocoon.

Back to my BG. I won a really tough match against foglar swamp last night thanks to the Altar again. He just kept spamming me with monsoon/feeding frenzy and I still managed to pull through with using my dwarves as drivers for the altar. He was really confused why i was walking over lava with my dwarves untill i was able to bring out my grimlic, nefari messanger, and sheoul demon a second time.

Thoughts on Succubus so far...Very average. Wish I had a UD Pox Harbinger instead. But with the outrageous price that will never happen. Nefari Dragon is cool but I have a bias against non-demon's that are 2x2.

P.S. I hate Foglar Swamp. They are cheap as all hell.

[xharthar]

very interested in your Scorched Dwarves and Altar combo.

i'm been running 1xSD for a while at 29 Nora (max Nora and Mason) which is probably a waste. adding a second with no Mason could be interesting. and the combo with the Altar is very appealing with a 19 nora, 4cd champ.

like whoever said above me, i can't see how you could need Shatter when you are running 2xDEP. i've only played about 80 games so far, but never had an issue with enemy equipment. running the priestesses at 11 spd means they can reach any enemy who needs to be shattered.

[MerrMan]

Unfortunately for competitive play it's hard to use anything but the proven staples. I would love to eventually play an arachnid theme but I feel like we are one awesome arachnid away from making it playable. Maybe in the next expansion they can create a leaping spider with magic bomb and cocoon.

Back to my BG. I won a really tough match against foglar swamp last night thanks to the Altar again. He just kept spamming me with monsoon/feeding frenzy and I still managed to pull through with using my dwarves as drivers for the altar. He was really confused why i was walking over lava with my dwarves untill i was able to bring out my grimlic, nefari messanger, and sheoul demon a second time.

Thoughts on Succubus so far...Very average. Wish I had a UD Pox Harbinger instead. But with the outrageous price that will never happen. Nefari Dragon is cool but I have a bias against non-demon's that are 2x2.

P.S. I hate Foglar Swamp. They are cheap as all hell.

You're right that the altar is great. The 19 nora build on the Scorched Dwarf as a 'blood for the blood god!' altar feeder is amazing. He pays for himself (-1) in three turns and can kill himself in about four so you're really not losing anything to drop the cooldown on demons by 2.

I'm really curious as to what you dislike about the Succubus. They can get rather pricey, but with Life Siphon and Charm their survivability is through the roof. Not to mention that 1x1 flight on any champion is a huge boon on so many maps. Succubus is consistently one of my favorite champs just because she can cause so many headaches running interference. Like I said she does run pretty expensive but I can't think of the last time she didn't pay for herself at least.

I also really think you need to reexamine the Nefari Dragon. At 9spd with flamestrike 3 it becomes an absolutely devastating piece of artillery every other turn. You're right though, with the altar being the new run everyone is running the lack of demon hurts more now than ever before. However, flying counters the 2x2 base with relative ease, making it runnable. Extremely efficient, and if you use it right it is a fantastic rune. Take another look at this one

[Konger]

Looking good, glad to hear the Altar is working out for you, I think you were the one that I as talking to in game? I don't think I could talk too much because I was in the middle of a match.

The Scorched Dwarfs and the Altar sounds like a great combo, have you considered throwing a Nefari Siphon into the mix? Siphon hits the Dwarfs for 10 damage every 2 turns, and reaps 20 nora, takes about 6 turns to kill the Dwarf, who has generated about 36 nora himself in that time. In total you're getting 96 nora over 6 turns, with just one Dwarf, and one Siphon. Basically pays for themselves in 6 turns, and then you're generating roughly 16 nora a turn afterwards. And you're left with the Siphon being an admirable combat champ sitting at your base. A little too gimmicky, and too much setup for my tastes, but thought I'd throw it out there. ;)

Pin Cushions are amazing champs, so good choice there, they're guaranteed to be a pain for your opponent, and are one less champ you have to worry about Demon Shielding. As cool of a rune as the Bloodletter is, I still prefer the Pin Cushion myself.

What build were you running the Nefari Dragon at? I know it sucks that he's not a demon, but for 70 nora, he's one of the best budget champs in the game, capable of putting out 20 damage from range every other turn, and is a great meatshield on top of it. Succubus is also a great champ, but you'll probably have to play with her a bit more before you really appreciate her. I was skeptical myself at first. She's not a champ that you'll use every match, mostly because of her cost, but she has so many uses, and is a great one-girl army when you need a mobile champ to break away from the rest of the group to say, defend a font. She can take almost any other champ on 1 on 1. And is almost unstoppable with a Demon Shield on.

I'd still greatly prefer a Nefari Dragon over the Imp, but that's up to you. I'd also run a Superiority over the Shatter.

And I'm still pretty amazed that you're finding 8 combat champs enough for you. And only one heavy beater champ? I'll have to watch one of your matches sometime and see how it works out in practice. Just seems like your only heavy hitters are Grimlic and the Sheoul, which sounds very lacking.

If I had to suggest one last thing, it would be dropping a Demon Shield for another combat champ, heresy I know. But you already have a Mindslicer Obelisk, and a Pin Cushion now, are you really using both of those Demon Shields at the same time still? If you still feel like you need those two Demon Shields, how about swapping a Shield for a second Pin Cushion, or even a Deep Elf Monk? A Monk would give you a backup beater, with built in ranged protection. Or if you wanted to stay cheaper with the Altar, another Pin Cushion would just be one more champ to deal damage, and not have to worry about wearing a Demon Shield.

[Shadow969]

Tonight I will swap out the Succubus for a 70 Nora Nefari Dragon. Shatter out for Superiority. Demon Shield out for a second pincushion once i find one. The Imp stays for now :) I'll let you know how it goes.

Updated BG
2x Deep Elf Priestess
2x Scorched Dwarf
1x Imp
2x Pincushion
1x Nefari Dragon
1x Sheoul Demon
1x Nefari Messanger
1x Grimlic

1xAcrid Smoke
1xFire Blast
1xRetribution
1xSuperiority
1xSacrifice

1xMindslicer Obelisk
1xAltar of Votaev
1xMark of Sheoul

1xDemon Shield

[Shadow969]

Went 3-2 last night. Moved up to Rank 134. As long as I win more than I lose i will be happy. Although, I do predict the matches to get tougher now towards the top. Playing these guys will truly test if my BG is any good. I still don't see a need to play more than 8 combat champs. Most games I don't even get all of them out unless it goes to endgame. I did lose one match last night because I didn't get a champ until the 4th turn. Which I think is more bad luck than not having more champs. The 70 nora nefari dragon is a major beast. At 80 nora I used him more at the front line. At 70 I just use him for his flamestrike cannon every two turns and that works really well. Superiority is cool but I wish we had a better spell. Maddening echoes is too situational to be viable. Also the dwarf driven altar saved me again against a good SL/FW BG that ran dreadnought, draco lich, canoneer's, shifter, firestorm, blister, and hatching season (annoying spell).

Updated BG
2x Deep Elf Priestess
2x Scorched Dwarf
1x Imp
1x Pincushion
1x Nefari Dragon
1x Sheoul Demon
1x Nefari Messanger
1x Grimlic

1xAcrid Smoke
1xFire Blast
1xRetribution
1xSuperiority
1xSacrifice

1xMindslicer Obelisk
1xAltar of Votaev
1xMark of Sheoul

2xDemon Shield

[RyanXdD]

Where would you fit your titan in on your deck ... since I am not gonna get a premium account ... I put it instead of the mark of sheoul.

[Shadow969]

I haven't play tested with the titan, but as far as I know he is a waste of space. You can't beckon him so he's a huge road block and a big target. He might viable in a 10/10 deck with mobilize to move him in and get two attacks in to kill someone. But he's just too expensive for ranked play. If you are playing just for fun he could be blast. I actually get really excited everytime someone plays a Titan against me. All i have to do is get two hits in then cast retribution and they are gone.