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View Full Version : The new Zombie-Wall/disease bg - Yes, it still works!


Tarew
08-01-2008, 05:16 PM
I don't usually post on the faction specific forum but in this case I'll make an exception.
It's taken me about a month and over 600 ranks since the Mobi/Blood Fiend nerfs to finally find a FW deck that works for me again but I think I've finally succeeded.
This battlegroup works by capitalizing on nora efficiency and the FW cooldown reduction. There are no big nora-cost champions with bullseyes on their backs which can make opponents who have to hack through only legions of cheap units and zombies feel hopeless and disheartened after a while.
And even better, this entire battlegroup only contains ONE rare and TWO exos making it one of the most accessible FW bgs out there to new players. It is also completely Lich King-less.
This battlegroup is completely tuned to benefit from our faction bonus to the maximum. No champ has a cooldown of more then 5 turns. So far this battlegroup has pulled me back from rank 720 to rank 178 and I'm still moving up the ranking list at the time of writing.

Anyway, here's the list:

CHAMPIONS (11):

- 2x Afflicted Corpse (the amp doesn't do an awful lot any more but it's still a cheap, expendable champ with damage over time ability. I run mine with only 3 hp upgrades for 38 nora and a 2-turn cooldown)

- 2x Festering Corpse (these zombies can do surprisingly large amounts of damage through their damage aura and Rabid if they get to attack and are excellent for shrine and font defense. I run them with hp upgrades and maximum damage aura upgrade for 35 nora).

- 2x Crossbone (extremely important as they're pretty much the only ranged support in the battlegroup and provide a new type of DoT. I run mine at 9 speed, +3 hp and poison 3 for a total of 64 and a 4-turn cooldown).

-2x Executioner (meatshields with a very solid attack. I run mine at a very unusual, super-cheap build at 9 speed and +8 hitpoints. This bg isn't meant to rush with, it's meant to last. This build puts the Executioner at 64 nora and a smooth 4-turn cooldown).

-2x Infected Zombies (fantastic shields and great damage dealers to boot. No lumbering, a reasonable attack, and especially a level 3 damage aura means these guys can dish out a LOT more damage than you might expect. I run mine with a level 3 disease aura, +3 hp and a level 2 damage shield for 74 nora and a 5 turn cooldown).

-1x Anthropomancer (this deck can generate a lot of zombies, all of which have good hitpoints and take a good amount of effort for your opponent to take down. This gives you time, which you're going to need for the damage over time to kick in. Anthropomancer is here simply to increase that time and it's very good at it. I run mine with Divine Favor 2, Curse 1, 9 speed and +2 hp for a total of 74 nora).

SPELLS (5):

Five spells may not seem like a lot but it's all you need. You will notice that I do not play Mobilization. It only has limited usefulness with all your lumbering units and 50 nora is not something you can easily afford.

- 2x Festering Wounds (even though its damage can't be amped anymore, this is still a staple. The days of this spell single-handedly slaying an army are long gone though, it will need support)

- 2x Hungry Dead (I used to only run one because it is somewhat situational but boy is this spell useful. It does very important damage, it allows zombies to approach enemy champions and can shatter an enemy formation. This spell has never let me down before.

- 1x Weaken (more situational than Hungry dead but nevertheless extremely helpful in some cases, especially against Wrath. One high damage champ attacking your zombie wall is a lot less dangerous than two high damage champs attacking it).

RELICS (4):

These are pretty obvious but here they are:

- 1x Unholy Tomb (enables Festering Wounds and more importantly, partially negates the nora advantage rushing opponents will get from their fonts).

- 1x Tome of Hate (still incredibly helpful against shrine rushes).

- 1x Elsarin Vex (I'm afraid our warbanner is still essential for this battlegroup to work. The +5 hitpoints it gives to all your zombies is absolutely invaluable, as is the nora refund from deploying champs).

- 1x Skull of Decay (disease bgs need this more than ever. If you don't play some sort of anti-heal, pretty much all Protectorate factions can outheal you one way or another. I prefer this over Tormented Priest because it also reduces regeneration which is especially useful against Kartch, Mena or off course SL as well as Divine Favor from Dwarven King or Crystal Phoenix).

PLAYING STYLE:

This deck, as might be expected, has a rather defensive playing style. However this does NOT mean that you can just sit back and turtle on your shrine and font zones as I've seen some FW players do in the past (you know who you are).
You will have to actually counterattack if you want to win with this bg.
Ideal are maps with one font close to your shrine and no other obstacles such as the Lava Plains or KF map. On these maps you will usually have ample time to setup.
There are also a few rules that are extremely important to keep in mind when playing this or any other zombie-wall bg (these may take some getting used to as I do tend to be a bit more aggressive than your avergage FW player):

1: If they are not in combat or entering combat, ALWAYS SAVE ACTION POINTS ON YOUR CHAMPS!

2: Crossbone is your sole means of deterring enemy range units (and they do it well, the poison stings and the low cost makes me actually prefer these over Lich Kings) and it needs to have ap saved in order to get attacks in.

3: Do not be afraid to charge your units into a group of enemies as long as they have some Crossbone or spell support!
Especially your Infected Zombies with their damage auras damage shield can do large amounts of damage and the spawned festering zombies will lock enemy champs down for your support to finish them off. They only have a 5-turn cooldown so using them aggressively with zombie spawns is infinitely more effective than just turtling with them.
Executioners too are good units to attack with. With a banner and my preferred build, these are 61 hitpoint, 21 defense tanks that take a fair amount of hits to get rid of and can dish out punishment to boot.

4: When you attack, make sure your lumbering zombies follow up.
Your Festering and Afflicted Corpses are obviously slower than the rest of the army but that is no reason to keep them back. By the time your opponent has dealt with your shock troops, they should have reached the enemy and can continue to bog them down and finish them with damage auras and Rabid abilities. If they die, no problem. With their 2-turn cooldown and cheap cost, they'll be ready to defend again in no time.

5: Certain maps are tougher to defend on, especially against a rushing opponent. The fonts tend to be far away from your shrine and if you get a bad start, you might think you're in trouble. This especially applies to both the Ironfist maps as well as the Sundered Lands map and the Brood Pits map.

On these maps, if you have a bad start (with only lumbering champs for example), do NOT even attempt to get a font. You will not get it and will have committed valuable resources that could have been used on defense.
Just get your Tomb and banner up as fast as possible and build a zombie wall a few spaces from or around your shrine. Crossbone support and Infected Zombie use are essential here and since you will be tight on nora, you can not afford to be reckless with your champs.
FW however is one of the few, if not the only faction that can still come back from situations like these though and I have won many games afer being fontrushed where other factions would just have given up already.

That's pretty much all I can think of for now. This bg actually is surprisingly fun to play as well as very effective once you get used to it. Hopefully some new players and maybe even some older ones will find this useful and I will off course be happy to answer any questions :)

dvalmont
08-01-2008, 07:47 PM
I'm liking this! I might build one just to see how much I like it... :)
I run something pretty similar with not bad results. I'm all for maximizing CD and running my champs dirt cheap. Often with base 7 speeds as my mobi's usually do the trick when I do need that second attack.
Anyways, cool, thanks for sharing.

Simpox
08-01-2008, 07:52 PM
looks interesting, and along the same lines as gawdzilla's, except he has a couple of abominations in there too, coincidently, does anyone know his whole deck?

Jotnar
08-01-2008, 11:30 PM
I run a similar deck resolving around DOT and aura damage allthough all at higher nora cost. Using Death Guards to guard my most essential runes. Also compensating the need for speed by including a Soul Siren, thinking about adding an additonal Siren and maxing the aura for additional dmg.

nicetodd
08-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Do you ever run into problems with physical damage resistant (or immune) units? Not a lot of magical damage here, mostly physical with disease mixed in.

I too, enjoy the low cool down bonus, but am now running a slightly more expensive group with the possess/necrosis/throw bones theme.

IS almost always surrenders right after I do that to Talgar or the DK they just laid out.

Tarew
08-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Do you ever run into problems with physical damage resistant (or immune) units? Not a lot of magical damage here, mostly physical with disease mixed in.

I too, enjoy the low cool down bonus, but am now running a slightly more expensive group with the possess/necrosis/throw bones theme.

IS almost always surrenders right after I do that to Talgar or the DK they just laid out.

Heh well that must help then because IS is my worst matchup after ST. I just had a hugh bout with it on the Nora Plains map (which I only won because he ran out of champions on my zombie wall...he controlled every single one of the fonts for most of the game) and yes, the Stone Dragon did cause me a fair bit of trouble.
To be honest I don't run into a lot of other physical resistant champs but they're not much of a problem anyway. The main way this bg does damage is through disease and poison damage combined with physical attacks and there are very few champs that resist or are immune to all three of those outside FW. Champions which you'd expect to pose a problem such as Vindrax actually go down surprisingly fast to poison and disease DoTs.
The only form of damage prevention that's really an issue is Bodyguard. Fortunately you don't run into it too often but ST with bodyguarding Crystal Phoenixes is an absolute nightmare.

Lukkas
08-02-2008, 09:53 PM
What about vs FW

Seems like its auto-lose

Worldmaker
08-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Disease always was, anyway. Unfortunately, with the proliferation (or exclusion of other playstyles) of non-themed decks, it's not often you'll run into another Disease, so you just take the loss and move on.

Tarew
08-03-2008, 01:09 AM
What about vs FW

Seems like its auto-lose

Well it's certainly not a good matchup. Against a skelly deck it's pretty much an auto-loss yes.
Fortunately most other FW-players will agree to FQ with you. Even when I played a skelly deck myself, I'd FQ with other FW players if they wanted to so it's not that much of a problem. Us dead people should stick together ;)

Strings
08-03-2008, 03:10 AM
Would be nice if the festering coprse could get amp disease <.< Im thinking about running Xbones now in replacement of the Draco's, and possible swapping the aflicted corpses for festering ones, or bile zombies... My deck is rather close to that one (except on the spell side) although i havnt seen how well it works since the amp change.

BTW, it would probably be better if yous swaped the Anthro for a siren.

kussel
08-03-2008, 03:40 AM
I made a modified your Bg to sute( dunno how to spell it) my style and i recently beat a skelly deck so they werent much of a problem.
In the deck i now have:

x2 afflicted corpes death nova disease 37 nora
Festering corpes (lvling it)
Crosbone with 7 speed and poison 2 (lvling it)
Dark messanger immune magic, essence drain 11 speed 39 hps 83 nora
Exec 76 nora 17 damage 9 speed some hps
Exec 68 nora mobility 9 speed some hps
Fallen draksar 9 speed some hps
IZ death nova 1, aura 3 and damage shield 2 9 speed hp 74 nora
IZ death nova 9 speed 67 nora
Siren 9 seednsome hps 61 nora
Toll Taker 9 speed an some hps 64 nora

Domination
X2 fester
hungry dead
Mobi

Elsarin Vex
Tome of hate
Unholy tomb

I currently thinking which version of the IZs i prefere.
The fallen drakser is to help me beat IS and for disarm
My toll taker and Dark messanger are my magic users to help me against Res physical
My 17 damage exec is over the 5 cooldown thing but it has helped me out so much :D
Hungry dead is great! I used it on a nefari dragon that was over a cliff and it toke 4 damage + the 5 falling damage and couldnt move :D

Ive won a few games with deck lossing 2 and 1 of the loses was due to me dcing :/

Tarew
08-03-2008, 04:39 AM
Yeah I've been thinking about putting a Siren in there. I think I'd swap it for an Executioner or an Afflicted Corpse though rather than the Anthropomancer though. I find it to be quite a useful unit when you need your zombies to live just that one turn longer for reinforcements to arrive when you're contesting a font for example (like I said, I usually play a bit more aggressively than most FW players).

By the way, I just got back in top 100 again (yay) and solely with this bg so I'd say it's working pretty nicely so far (for me anyway :D).

nicetodd
08-03-2008, 09:41 AM
Okay, so just made one of these up to try it out... and got ST as my first draw. I surrendered immediately, as I didn't want to be learning on the hardest faction for it to win against. lol

NEXT!

nicetodd
08-03-2008, 09:47 AM
Okay, so just made one of these up to try it out... and got ST as my first draw. I surrendered immediately, as I didn't want to be learning on the hardest faction for it to win against. lol

NEXT!


Also, forgot to ask... but how does this bg fair against the FW itself?

nicetodd
08-03-2008, 10:06 AM
holy crap, i just completely kicked the **** out of a ~1500 ranked UD. (not that that rank is so impressive, just that it was so freaking easy)

kussel
08-03-2008, 10:31 AM
Also, forgot to ask... but how does this bg fair against the FW itself?

Well it depends on what deck your opponent is using.
I recently beat a skelly deck with the bg, it wasnt much of a problem

nicetodd
08-03-2008, 10:36 AM
Well it depends on what deck your opponent is using.
I recently beat a skelly deck with the bg, it wasnt much of a problem

what was the basic strategy? It would seem none of the DoT would be effective here, which is where most of the damage comes from. Also, none of the spells or relics (apart from weaken, vex, ToH) are even remotely useful.

Edited to add:

AHH... i see you have a dark messenger, Toll Taker, soul siren, draksar replacement (plus mobi). Methinks this is a much different deck. Slightly more versatile, but my god... the living fall so fast to this other deck. Also, cool down greatly enhanced in your deck. I might give this one a try too, but the zombie wall is amazingly powerful.

LucyBanana
08-03-2008, 10:52 AM
I made a modified your Bg to sute( dunno how to spell it) my style and i recently beat a skelly deck so they werent much of a problem.
In the deck i now have:

x2 afflicted corpes death nova disease 37 nora
Festering corpes (lvling it)
Crosbone with 7 speed and poison 2 (lvling it)
Dark messanger immune magic, essence drain 11 speed 39 hps 83 nora
Exec 76 nora 17 damage 9 speed some hps
Exec 68 nora mobility 9 speed some hps
Fallen draksar 9 speed some hps
IZ death nova 1, aura 3 and damage shield 2 9 speed hp 74 nora
IZ death nova 9 speed 67 nora
Siren 9 seednsome hps 61 nora
Toll Taker 9 speed an some hps 64 nora

Domination
X2 fester
hungry dead
Mobi

Elsarin Vex
Tome of hate
Unholy tomb

I currently thinking which version of the IZs i prefere.
The fallen drakser is to help me beat IS and for disarm
My toll taker and Dark messanger are my magic users to help me against Res physical
My 17 damage exec is over the 5 cooldown thing but it has helped me out so much :D
Hungry dead is great! I used it on a nefari dragon that was over a cliff and it toke 4 damage + the 5 falling damage and couldnt move :D

Ive won a few games with deck lossing 2 and 1 of the loses was due to me dcing :/

I run my Infected zombies with nova 1 shield 1 aura 1 and 11 speed for 76 nora, they wreak havoc in every game and more often than not are more than my opponent can handle. the 11 speed his huge on these guys, I can run in from way out and plague someone, and swarming him is bad if you can't one round him, because I get to start plaguing multiple targets then lol.

ThePlumber
08-03-2008, 09:16 PM
zombie wall is very fun! I have made one using the staple champs (Infected zombie, 2x afflicteds, and then threw in whatever else I liked... very fun indeed.
I just wanted to edit this:

My bg is not really close to Tarews. I went with just IZ and afflicteds for zombies and then 2 X dead fairy for init, pestering, and ranged. A tormented priest with the skill tormented since I have 2 afflicteds out anyways, and for antiheal. I also went with 1 throw bones since you should have zombies out. It can make for a quick heal, as well as that extra 1 AP when you really need it. Also, I am only running one mobi for when I really need it. Tome/tomb/2xfester of course and an exec I think, just because they are so pimpin. A lich king as well. That makes 4 good ranged champs that can sit behind my wall. I also added a hungry dead and a ghostly visage (testing out the visage with the magic damage I have as well as for making a zombie flying, etc).

Manofdusk
08-04-2008, 04:32 AM
I have half a mind to try some kind of FW/KF rush/swarm hybrid using Infected Zombie.

With the +1 spd from KF, they'll be able to move and attack in the same round.

Here's what I came up with:

Afflicted Corpse x 2
Bladed Corpse x 2
Festering Corpse x 2
Infected Zombie x 2
Lich King x 1
Toll Taker x 1

Apprentice Mage x 2
Elven Archer x 2
Elven Mage x 2

Light as a Feather x 2
Nature's Wrath x 2


You might also want to consider subbing out Lich King/Toll Taker (or Afflicted Corpse x 2) for Crossbones x 2 and Apprentice Mage x 2 for Sporegill x 2

... or something like that. In any event, you can get limited Disease and poison amp if you really try in this bg.


regardless, Light as a Father on IZ means he can tag an enemy then move away. Putting it on a regular zombie lets them get closer faster.