Mirefolk... mire mīr/ noun 1. A stretch of swampy, or boggy ground. _____ folk (From the German origin volk) fōk/ noun A group of people, or army. Mirefolk = A Swamp Army. Mirefolk is not a race, but a group of races. Make Circadian, Pirahnid and Fentek their own race. -_- Merfolk... Mer Through extensive discussion with one of my past English Professors.. Mer mer/ noun The sea. Mer has a close relation to Mir meaning people, and Merfolk meaning. \/ Merfolk merfōk/ noun Mermaid or Merman. ___________ Results. Circadians are Merfolk not Mirefolk.... They are people of the sea. Direct translation Sea people....
Seeing how Mirefolk are combined of Pirahnids (and the few Fentek) who are basically swamp monsters and the Merfolk like Circadians I dont see why we should distinguish between them though. One can do that lorewise but one most likely shouldnt do it gameplaywise.
The game is nothing if not its lore. Otherwise FS would be fish, IS would be midge... I mean "Small People" UD would S&M, ect.....
Alltogether the population of poxanthru could call them fishpeople Mirefolk though. The non-boghoppers that live in the waters and are able to think straight. Unlike Beasts. So it is just a simplification of whatever they used to be called before.
I don't support this change. The faction is called Forglar Swamp, not Forglar Sea. A swamp army is conceptually sound given the component parts of Mirefolk as already pointed out.
Verbally it makes sense. However to group a race such as the Circadians with the feral Pirahnids and the barbaric Fentek would be wrong. The Circadians were around some. Mirefolk Stalker, Mirefolk Vixen. They are Mer yes. They are by name. Mirefolk. Swamp People. However the Circadians are more than their mire brethren.
Gameplay wise it's good to have obviously different races have the same race, like with Mirefolk and Undead. I think because of the lore and their looks they should also have another race added, like Undead have Skeletons, Zombies etc, so they have something big in common and also something more specific in common.
If your are a walking skeleton/zombie you are blatantly undead or a reanimate... To have Undead as a race is redundant. Especially when they have an ability. "Boon of the Undead" Plastered on that faction. The factions in an of them selves are an obvious grouping. If you are going to make a race. Make the race.
To continue this, Hyaenids are clearly a humanoid beast. However they are not classified as a beast or folk because they have some civility. Circadians at the very least should be removed from the Mirefolk - as the entire faction is Mirefolk - and have race, Mer added to them. I can see that Pirahnids and Fentek have yet to be a group aside from the Mirefolk. However at the very least. Pirahnid should get a sub race. "Pirahnid" I mean come on.. Pirahnid, Hyaenid....
I guess yes, if you already have an ability, which makes you have all the perks from this faction, then you are quite right that it's unnecessary addition to their race.
Verbally? Contextually, what I'm saying doesn't just make sense, it's accurate. By component parts, I mean Cecaelia + Fentek + Merfolk + Pirahnid. They are known, collectively, as Mirefolk just like the Sangheili (Elites), Jiralhanae (Brutes), San 'Shyuum (Prophets) etc. comprise the Covenant Empire. Up until the Elites broke away from the Covenant, you wouldn't encounter just one of the allied/conscripted races due to the interconnectivity of their religious society. I'd argue Mirefolk function in precisely the same way. Fentek Servent is the earliest example of this thought process as his rune art depicts him holding a Mirevixen. A closer look at loretext supports this: Pirahnid Bloodfied "Bring the next Pirahnid, the vault is ready for it next sacrifice" ~ Marx, Circadian Templar Pirahnid Tempest "Gekaal Looked on as the Tempest trained against the captive Kanen. The rites the Circadian had performed gave the Pirahnid far greater potential than he had anticipated. Perhaps he could tolerate the Circadian intrusion for awhile longer" Princess Ctharia sheds light on the Circadian caste system: "The true power behind the Circadians, the Caecaelia, though few in number, control the upper echelons of Circadian society." Breaking up Mirefolk into their respective races will negatively affect the theme unless multiple layers of unnecessary complexity (longer tooltips, multi-race thematic abilities) are added. Merfolk are almost exclusively ranged, Pirahnids are exclusively melee and Cecaelia/Fentek lack the numbers and inherent synergy to make even a basic module. Until such a time that DOG expresses the desire to separate Mirefolk and round them out to enable BGs built around each race, I just can't agree with your suggestion. It's change for the sake of change when nothing about the current grouping is need of "fixing." If you were talking about the race Demon or Undead, however, I'd agree (as have others). I caution against trying to apply real world mythology as is to Pox. The Firk are essentially Mind Flayers (D&D) that have been visually tweaked and thematically adjusted to make sense within Pox lore. If we base decisions like this on the literal definition of words in reference to real world mythology, much of Pox would begin to degrade as its lore is overridden by the real world. I'd prefer DOG decide how the Circadian society works in relation to the other races grouped within Mirefolk over attempting to tell them how it "should" be.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, RAID Officer IMAGIRL. It seems to me that you simply want the name Mirefolk changed to Mer because of some text book definitions of those words from a source outside the game. Is that correct? You shouldn't get so hung up on words. This is a game on its own, with its own lore, that simply happens to resemble some other pieces of lore. Or to put it another way, it takes what it wants from various sources of lore and drops what it doesn't want. Naming the race in discussion Mirefolk is for convenience - it is meant to give a hint about what the race is about -, but other than that, it is a name of its own in the standalone universe of Poxanthuru. So it doesn't have to EXACTLY stick to whatever meaning you found somewhere. Also, about that "somewhere". In what way have you decided that the sources you're quoting are unique and/or the ones we should be following? Should we change the Pox races whenever we find that they don't match real life/outside-game lore? I mean, don't even get me started on Elves and the various interpretations of that race.
Further fuel for the debate for Circadian to gain their own race. Mer or Circadian. I interviewed Kartch, The Finlord. Me: Hello Kartch. Thank you for meeting with me today. Kartch: Thank you for having me. Me: I would like to discuss the Forglar Swamps with you today. Kartch:I see. Ask away then. Me: Are the swamps always ready to defend them selves? Kartch: We are always ready to counter intrusions and protect ourselves. The swamp fights with us as well. Me: Ourselves? The Boghoppers, or are there more? Kartch: Of course there is more. We are not all, we exist. We protect, and the swamp provides. Me: I see, would you describe the others? Kartch: I can. There are the Firk, a hideous race if I do say so my self. They are powerful psychics. While they are ugly they are powerful allies with strong beliefs. Not that you would hear them speak their beliefs. *Laughs* Me: I see the Firk. So Boghoppers and Firk. That is all? Kartch: No. There is many more. Even the swamp helps. Sending swarms of Poison Elementals to aid in her defense. Hell even my friend Moog likes to join me in battle! Me: The swamp helps? Her? Kartch: Yes I referred to the swamp as her. Such serene beauty that is prone to such calm and violence can be nothing other and a "her." Me: I see. Lets get back on track shall we? You were mentioning the "others?" Kartch: Indeed. Aside from the Boghoppers, and the Firk, There are the Salaman and Jellebriums, the Mirefolk and the Snaptooths. The Tortuns and even the occasional Angel. Me: Lets start with the Salaman shall we? Describe them. Kartch: The Salaman. Hmm.... *He ponders for a few minutes. Who new the Finlord to be such a contexualist?* I would say that they are very adept in mechanical devices. There are quite a few however that choose a rouge like form of fighting. Not that I condone such a cowardly way of fighting. However I do commend them for getting the job done when necessary. Me: I see. The Jellebriums? Kartch: I know not of why they choose to help us fight now. However the Firk seem to be content with their psychic powers. They will aid us. Me: I see. The Mirefolk? Kartch: The are... I don't know how to describe them. They are ...they? The Mirefolk is not a group but, a term for a group of groups. Me: What do you mean? Kartch: Well they are Swamp People. They aid us. Me: Explain the "they." Kartch: They are the Circadians, Fentek and the Pirahnids. Me: Would you care to go into further detail? Kartch: I can. The Circadians are unique among this group as they are not savage. They have a political system, their own army and their own civilization. However since they are intrusive to our swamp; Gekaal seem to deem them not worth of a Race and instead grouped them with the savages. He is content however to abuse their power for our aid. Me: I see. What do you mean the Circadians are not savage as the rest? Kartch: The Fentek do not socialize with others of their kind very much. So as a group their in-fighting and brute strength cause much disruption. They have no political power or standing army to speak of. Me: And the Pirahnids? Kartch: The Pirahnids seem beastly, and wild. However; the Pirahnids are more than feral savages. With guidance, they can be deadly and precise. Me: So the Circadians are considered Swamp People, by swamp dwellers, but not a citizen of the swamp. Even while having their own political power, and standing armies? Kartch: Indeed. It's weird. Ask Gekaal. That is all I have to say on them. Me: What do we have left? Kartch: The Snaptooths and the Tortuns I believe. Me: Ok then, please continue. Kartch: The Snaptooths are a hardy race. They fight well, and have their own mystics. Me: You don't seem to have much to say about them. Nor do you seem to like them. Kartch: Some of there little ones of them keep stealing Destiny from me. I am not pleased. Me: They steal your DESTINY?!?!? Kartch: *Laughs* No, no. My spear is named Destiny. What is a Finlord without his spear? Me: Oh. I see. What indeed. A warrior without his weapon. Troublesome. Kartch: Very. Me: The Tortuns? Kartch: Oh, yes. The Tortuns love the swamp as much as we do and fight to protect it. However they tend to gravitate more to K'Thir. They are willing, and ready to defend both from attack. We will not deny their aid. Like the Salaman. They have some useful trinkets. Me: Well that is all the time I have for today. Any last words, or thoughts before we part? Kartch: A few. However I will say only this... *Looks into the camera* To those that would seek to harm the swamp. I will stop you. The swamp will stop you. Leave, or be prepared to face a surge of warriors bound to honor, willing to die for their homes. We will Hold the Line. Me: That was fairly frighting, and inspiring all at the same time. Kartch: I should hope so. Me: That's all the time we have folks. Join us next week for an interview with Talgar, Might of Ironfist! Goodbye, and goodnight.
What I am saying is. Circadians are clearly their own race. Why are they not one? Give them race Mer or Circadian. Lore, Logic, and Definitions back up this claim. On a similar note: The entire faction is by definition a Swamp Army or "Mirefolk." To have Mirefolk as a race is redundant. Consisting if a group of races is redundant. If a race is clearly defined. Give them their race. The Pirahnids, Fentek, and Circadians are all anatomically, visually and socially different. To view them as the same race is absurd. As for being hung up on it. I am not. I just found this a good debate, and started it. As I go through the debate though. I am finding that I am liking what I am ranting. I should see a psychiatrist.
Your debatet is well founded and hard to rebutal. However I will try. Though I fear it may be a flimsy attempt. "interconnectivity of their religious society. I'd argue Mirefolk function in precisely the same way. Fentek Servent is the earliest example of this thought process as his rune art depicts him holding a Mirevixen." I would counter act this point more directly with later points as a reference. However I will say that it would seem that not all Merfolk are Circadian. It would seem there are some Mer that are more human/fish than the elf/fish looks of their Circadian brethren. Making them indeed: Mirefolk as the naming - Mirefolk Vixen and Mirefolk Stalker - suggests. It would also seem they are not Circadian. So the use of this as an point against Circadian separation from the Mirefolk terminology can not be used. Circadian should still get there own race. "Breaking up Mirefolk into their respective races will negatively affect the theme unless multiple layers of unnecessary complexity" Aquatics are Aquatics. Should it matter that the Circadians prefer ranged fighting to the Pirahnids Melee style? Gamplay wise it does. Lore wise it does not. We are debating that in the lore they should have their own race. Changing any-term that states Mirefolk as a target to Aquatics as a target will not only keep the same effect but allow for diversity. Problem fixed? "I caution against trying to apply real world mythology as is to Pox." Gedden has stated previously that he does not just pull ideas from thin air. That all lore in pox is based in some shape or form on real life mythology and inspiration. So real world logic should still apply to some point. Circadians are all anatomically, visually and socially different. To view them as the same race as Pirahnids, Fentek, and Caecaelia is absurd. Even if they keep Mirefolk they should still have a Race Mer or Race Circadian. "Bring the next Pirahnid, the vault is ready for it next sacrifice" ~ Marx, Circadian Templar The Templar is ordering someone to bring the Pirahnid to be sacrificed. This could be interpreted similar to the Voil ordering a Moga to their death or even having the G'hern do it. This does not seem like a social hierarchy, but more of a slave going to sacrifice. "Gekaal Looked on as the Tempest trained against the captive Kanen. The rites the Circadian had performed gave the Pirahnid far greater potential than he had anticipated. Perhaps he could tolerate the Circadian intrusion for awhile longer" Once again the Circadian are performing experiments on the Pirahnids. Gekaal permits it so long as the the "Intrustion" (The Circadian interference in the Forlgar Swamps) dtill somehow benefits the overall of the swamp. In this case they augmented a Pirahnid. I can not say whether this was Volunteer, Obligation or Slave Experimentation. That is open for debate. All in all. Point Plausible. "The true power behind the Circadians, the Caecaelia, though few in number, control the upper echelons of Circadian society." It would seem to me you are correct in saying the Caecaelia has some control over the Circadian, however that does not make Caecaelia a Circadian. It does not make a Circadian a Caecaelia. They are still separate races.
Honestly I can see Fentek as being the same race. I was about to argue differently until I looked at Revolting Fentek/Quagmiran. Not all Fentek are armored and look quite visually similar to Merman. They just have legs. They could very well be the same race, just with different skin color and anatomy. As the gills on the Fentek are quite pronounced. Circadian and Fentek are both seem like Merfolk.While being of the Circadian and Fentek race respectively. Circadian Arcanist: Race Mer, Circadian. Revolting Fentek: Race Mer, Fentek
ape -> asderthal -> sapiens sapiens fish and ocean stuff -> piranhids -> cool mutated mermaids (half fish, half octopu, entire mix. etc) They all might be kind of the same after all...
That is assuming the same evolutionary process took place. Nora has a tendency to mutate, not evolve. Side Note: I updated my earlier post. I didn't expect you to respond so fast. You might take another look at it.
That would be like "hey some jakeis have wings, let's make a race for them, something like Race: jakei, beast, flying dude"
