im not paying 88 nora for dirge

And since when do we factor in faction bonuses?

 

I was including it cause it's it's 'deployment' cost.

Sorry that was probably the full 12 or something.

 

I was just commenting on the fact that dirge in full faction moga would be alright for 88 nora.

I did not mean to create a debate.

I withdraw my comments, yes heroes deserve a shakeup i won't deny that.
Maybe he could be better.

 

He doesn't need a buff. He needs to have sandbagging racial abilities be left as upgrade options.

 

It's not that he needs a buff, but right now he has -15 artificially added to his nora cost. We should find a way to trim down hero abilities so they can be runnable without that -15 built in.

 

"Moga Lord" For him to me the lord of Moga he needs to have a twist on his racial abilities imo

 

K'lzik is a racial hero but Propagate and Life Siphon makes her efficient even outside of Spider BGs due to Surge.

Serkan the Lich King doesnt even have any racial abilities that correlates him to Lich racials. Vendetta on him actually makes him good with both Zombies and Spirits.

What we're discussing is the inclusion of heroes in goodstuff BGs and how other heroes doesnt get sandbagged with their respective base abilities, with their respective flavor.

The second runner up are the beast heroes from ST: Azaren have a freemeat beast thatcomes with him. Beast Herder is arguably a sandbag if we include Tundra Whispers and the likes in a Goodstuff BG, but for 12 nora, at the very least you can apply it to Tusk. Dirge's Surge + Overseer 2 (total 9 nora) is not applicable to anything unless you use ur slots for Mogas. The nature of ghernbound mogas dependancy on that Overseer ability doesn't make it efficient for someone to just use Dirge and not other Gherns.

while Gnark also has swarm which actually makes him worthwhile by himself. At the very least, he can snowball his danage (by choosing Surge Beast) by himself in the long run. Dirge doesnt do this. His upgrades are racials, but are more flexible as u can choose depending on the majority race in your Goodstuff ST Bg.

Thats my honest opinion about Dirge's "sandbagging" reference. Thats why its best to just not sandbag him (-9 nora) at base to an 88 nora Dirge when Hero hits -0 nora.

And... No one should really compute a unit's Nora Cost while including faction bonus. If thats the case, then every faction would have their own fixed adjusted nora cost, which would be naturally unfair.

As for the Hero ability, I really think it deserves a discount because no matter which abilities u wanna trim off a hero, it will still be ridiculously expensive due to their impressive basic stats, not the myriad of abilities. Unless you want Heroes to have a normal stats of a normal champ, they should be playable only if Hero serves as a nora reduction static ability.

 

The "Moga Lord" gaining overseer and surge as an upgrade? I think not. He's fine as he is (he's just boring) lacks flavour/twist

 

Totally agree with this. I don't understand why some people deliberately want to make champs unplayable in goodstuffs/meta. I understand why Dirge should be playable in theme, so he definitely should have access to abilities like overseer and surge:moga, but making him playable in theme isn't the same as deliberately making those abilities base so he's difficult to use outside of theme. Give players a choice, and let them decide what abilities they want and what bgs to use him in.

To be clear, he's fine now, but I thought that the -15 adjustment for the hero stat will be removed long term and, if it is, we'll have to reconsider his design.