Buffs for Next Patch

1 buff per theme is a good idea too.. and we should not "waste" our buffs for curse to be removed from some runes, worthless/flavorless abilities on champs must be removed, and getting them removed is not necessarily a buff; but a fix of the champ (Im talking about soul tap on soul render, Curse on zombies and skellys etc.)

so with zombies getting corrupted guardian buffed i will propose a buff for some themes:

Creepers: I don't actually play this theme, but the phantasmal suggestion of 0 damage and changing curse for hex would make this rune pretty solid.
Spirits: Defiler Knight: Remove Cast: Ghostly visage, Quest kill enemy to base, leaving upgrade path with only 2 options to choose, and leaving spirits with a good tank (finally)
Skeletons: Broken bones: Numerous to base
Vampyres: Bloodbinder count: Remove bloodbind for barrage?

 

Phantasmal to 0 DMG and Curse to Hex would be too huge a buff. Consider how often Ethereal Soldier actually uses his auto attack; Phantasmal would be that, with Portal, Nora Leech, and theme synergy for 48 nora. It would be 2x auto in every FW BG.

 

then just give 0 damage to the creeper and remove curse, but don't replace it with anything

 

He would be 39 nora. I think the thing to do is give him a manual cost increase, and limit his ranks of Hex, while still cutting out the damage.

 

Manual cost increases/decreases are bad, I think. Better to adjust the nora ratio on stats, abilities, etc, properly.

 

Currently, the 8 damage is both. Outside of some narrow interactions involving splits, the stat does literally nothing other than increase his cost. I would rather see him have 0 DMG and a +16 modifier than be in his current state. It's cleaner design, if nothing else.

What would you think would be an appropriate change?

 

Maybe raising the cost on stats alone, but this is a very particular opinion since I think cheap champ spam is bad. So for instance, in a "perfect Pox", every champ would start costing like +10 nora with "proper" stat adjustment.
This is, of course, very utopic, because I dont see another revamp incoming, but it sure would be nice to have a look at how stats are costed indivdually. For instance: how much is 1SPD? Or 10HP? Or 10DMG? Or 2DEF?

 

@Markoth posted this old formula elsewhere -- it isn't what they use now -- and it gives a usable if rough estimation:

((HP/12)*DEF)+(HP*0.8)+((maxRNG-minRNG)*3)+(maxRNG*1.7)+((DMG-10)*2)+((SPD-6)*8)

There are plenty of obvious design and balance problems with this formula, but it should give you the gist of how things work. As far as raising the cost on stats, you'll actually find that most cheap champions already have large manual cost modifiers post-revamp.

 

Or you can just go sit in a corner somewhere for a while







or a long time

 

Yeah, Im aware of the formula, because I was at the council by the time Xirone came up with it. It was useful back then because, frankly, nobody knew what the hell Gedden wanted to do with the revamp so we rolled with what we had. Props to @Xirone for coming up with it.
Your last sentence troubles me, though, because I felt "manual cost modifiers" were gone. Sigh.
I dont know, I wish it could be discussed further down the road: how much should a champ with 1 RANGE, 10DMG, 6SPD, 0DEF, 40HP cost? In my head, something like 40ish nora. You tack on some abilities, lets assume 5, priced at 7 each, something like 70ish nora.
But this has nothing to do with this thread, so sorry for hijacking it. Carry on.

 

This actually loops back into the present thread: Collection of Souls has an enormous manual cost modifier. No way is that rune paying 31 nora for those stats. Manual cost modifiers are alive and well, with which I have no problem per se. They're just showing up in some awkward spots.

 

Wat?

 

I was never a maths wiz but does that mean anything with 1-5 speed pays the same for anything with 6 speed? Because that would be ridiculous, 1 speed makes a huge difference.

 

They get a discount. Those extra numbers set a baseline.

 

Good, my brain was about to explode.

 

Yeah. It establishes valuable baselines, but leaves out plenty of interactions.

 

For Anthropomancer what about Balance 1/2/3 instead of divine favor?

 

Ok I think we need to bring this in a little.
I have counted at least 30 different champs in this thread that we are looking to get changed.
Is it possible BEFORE we get into stat changes and all that good stuff that we narrow it down to the top 10 then to the top 5 that need it the most.
In the thread The Chosen all I ask is the name of the champ, JUST THE NAME. The thread will be open for 5 days then the top 10 will be listed in a poll then the top 5 will be Chosen

 

I think that's what we are doing.

 

Mairdreath of the rot and her pall wretched witch?