How to take IS back to competetive from bottom tier

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Dresnar20365988, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    LOL
     
  2. Dresnar20365988

    Dresnar20365988 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Been around much longer than the two of you. I have 2 alt accounts in the top 100 at the moment.

    Not that that is saying much.

    I've been farming mw24 fyi.

    Good day nubs
     
  3. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    I don't care how long you have been playing I passed your skill level a long time ago, I have 2 accounts in the top 10... You have been farming mw24? funny because I haven't played that account in like 2 months.
     
    Iskandak likes this.
  4. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    What changes are you currently suggesting to the greens? So we have an idea of what to discuss about
     
  5. Dresnar20365988

    Dresnar20365988 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    The discussion has run its course. All that's left are trolls. Best to let it be at this point.
     
  6. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    anticlimatic xD
     
  7. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    this is extremely true.
     
  8. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    How do you save a dwarf from drowning?












    Take your foot off of his head.
     
    JellyBerry, fattyy2k and SPiEkY like this.
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am pretty interested in investigating what IS players would feel to be in flavor in terms of effects that could give IS that extra tactical edge that some are wanting.

    This can include adjustments to existing runes or for ideas for new mechanics, particularly in non-champion runes.
     
    fattyy2k likes this.
  10. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    @Sokolov
    I'll show what kind of adjustments I'd like to see with examples
    exhibit A:
    Deep Elf Manslayer 7 speed with deep wounds and execute or combat awareness and 15 dmg. Very efficient.
    Exhibit B:
    Nefari Guardian 4 armor, phys resist 3 and bodyguard for 63 nora. Very efficient.

    I can go on with a lot of these. Though lately everyone plays either UD or FW against me, so I know most of those factions.

    now I'm gonna pick the worst of the bunch as examples for IS mind you. I dont think IS is in a very bad spot atm, though some themes could use a little buff.
    Exhibit A:
    Brubaker Brothers Sibling is on upgrade set 1, wasted upgrade set. Brubaker Resistance costs more nora than the resistance it gives costs. And its not always there. Its a 5 speed champ for 73 or 78 nora (Hold the Line is slightly mandatory on at least 1 of em). (Markoth asked for 1 of these changes earlier)

    Point being, I feel there are a lot of combinations that are very strong, but some cominations of skills I'm confused about. Stuff has a double role, having offensive skills and support skills (ivory wing, Northern Cross Priestess) or having skills for 2 themes (Dwarven Handler with Boost Construct and Regal Presence (awesome on DMC but for the rest... meh combo) (I'd love to have a conversation with you about Dwarven Handler btw)). If we could streamline some of those champions a bit more, I would be a very happy puppy.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  11. Rapidice

    Rapidice I need me some PIE!

    Okay, I'll talk a little about constructs, being it the theme I play the most.

    > The revamp and following patches helped Constructs a lot by giving access to more ranged champs. The rework in Turret Team, and the change in Dwarven Mortar Crew were great.
    > Lodestone Armory change was plain bad. Take into account that even when it is the only source of Improve Speed for the theme, it is not run. Why? If you choose the tank path by picking provision, the lack of a basic attack makes it totally harmless for your enemy. A tank needs to pose some threath to fulfill its role, or it will be ignored, and weared down by ranged units. If you choose the more support oriented build, with Improve Speed, it has to be at the back, and provide 1 ranged attack every 3 turns. Being a 2x2, it annoys your position, when you have to maneuver also DMC and Silverclan Protector, that are by far more vital to the theme than armory. Mason is a wasted upgrade, even if it gives amory something to do.
    > Animated Armor at 5 speed will never be run. Even worse, it has Defensive Strike, that is a totally wasted upgrade. Proposed change: Speed to 6, Opportunistic Assault replaces Defensive Stance as an upgrade.
    > Dwarven Engineer: It's a 79 nora (more common build) support rune with Helpless. Any ranged unit can take him down in 2/3 attacks. I don't know who tweaked the nora cost formula, but Summon Groble Piledriver can't, in any known universe, cost 40 nora. Let's compare with Fleshweaver Witch in it's ability to summon. Summon Festering Corpse costs 10 nora to summon a 41 nora champ, a 1:4 (0.25) nora ratio. Summon Groble Piledriver costs 40 nora to summon a 64 nora champion, a 2:3 (0.66) nora ratio. It's more than double the nora cost for summoning a champ!!!! If nobody complains about the engineer cost, it's because it has the mother of all the sandbags, in Helpless.
    > Boost auras overlaping bug, that has been in the game since more than 2 years, hasn't been addressed yet. It makes your game miserable just because you decided to have 2 sources of Boost at the same time in the map.
    > Silverclan Cavalier, I'm just gonna say 1 thing: a full Charge 1-2-3 upgrade path on a ranged unit.
    > All our decent ranged units are either Leg/Exo/LE, making the theme quite expensive to make a BG. Alternatives to improve this, is a revamp to Dwarven Catapult and Siege Engine. Particullarly, Siege Engine could receive some REAL love, just by replacing siege weapon ability with Siege. Also, I've mentioned it a million times: change Dwarf Driven range to 2 spaces.

    I'd like to finish this by saying that I love Forge Hammer, and the way it interacts with the theme. Maybe the DMG gain is a bit too much, but the effect is just perfect. Don't ruin it just because it's abused in meta BGs. Add a "it can only be equipped in constructs" clause if it seems too problematic to balance.

    I could continue on this, but I think it's more for a separated thread about constructs theme in general.
     
  12. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    It would require some programing, but what if Dwarf Driven worked like Latch. The siege engine would latch onto the dwarf and would follow where the dwarf moved. The difference would be that Latch causes lumbering, where this would cause both champs to lose 1 AP for every space moved.
     
    Iskandak likes this.
  13. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Ive said this to you once Sok, will say it again: you try too hard to be a "nice" guy to people, when you should be trying too hard to make Pox balanced and healthy.
    You always do this: "tell me FW players, what would YOU like to see and how YOU see things"? Then you go and implement it. Then you move to another faction and ask the same thing, and do the same thing as well.
    Know what this got you? Unbalanced game, because players couldnt care less about balance, they just want their crap on the same level of bullcrap than other factions.
    I realise that Pox has too much of a small population, so you have the impression you have to please everyone otherwise they will leave. Guess what? A much higher number of people leave due to the imbalances of the game.
    /shrugs
     
  14. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    he is doing pretty well balancing the game(game is getting way more balanced then before he came), he just needs to continue doing so because there is still a lot more to do. You could give him your opinion when he is making changes in the cataur crate if you have a good understanding of game balance and want to help or make a thread like I do.

    A lot of people just want their faction to be stronger than most others but that isn't everyone, I would prefer near perfect balance if possible but I play everything so I am a little different.

    Also game balance isn't the only issue. There are many different things that need to be worked on, I will try to participate and be helpful but soon I might not have that much time but I will contribute what I can.
     
  15. Iskandak

    Iskandak The King of Potatoes

    Seems like people do want balance :p

    @Pedeguerra How do you propose Sokobro gets his balance if not for the people who play the game to describe to him what the problems are?
    Nerf the most played factions till nobody plays them? (lose playerbase)
    Spectate every game till he gets a complete grip of what is imba? (He has a job :D and we want him to keep interested not completely bored with the game.)

    He is doing awesome, and people are trying to help getting his balance. And some ppl are just harrassing his ass without any addition to balance or the game :p
     
  16. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am, @Iskandak .
    I have no idea how much/if Sok acctually plays the game, but that would be a start, yes.
    Also, as far as I know Sok loves to have on his side players with not very good notion on balance, but that are fairly "nice people".
    I have no idea who he is relying on these days, but Im pretty sure he still relies on some old "bad players but nice people" type of carachters.
    I am not even a bit intimidated by Sok fanboys.
     
  17. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    help him do better if you don't like how he is handling balance. tell him how he can improve his work. Try and make positive changes just saying he is doing bad is gonna help make anything better. He is doing really good compared to what was going on before he came. There wasn't much balancing going on at all before he started.
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    The Brothers have always been bad (I don't really a time when they weren't). I think they could use a rework, and are an interesting concept, but when you have a bunch of abilities tied up in making a concept like this work, it's probably not going to make for very interesting runes.
     
    Iskandak likes this.
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    To clarify, I am interested in hearing what players would have fun using. Think of game scenarios that made you go, "I wish I had a spell that did this..."
     
  20. Rapidice

    Rapidice I need me some PIE!

    I can see some issue of a 2x2 unit latching onto a 1x1 unit. Like walking around corners and that.
     
    Iskandak likes this.

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