Minotaur Sentry/Dimension Door

This rune just seems ridiculous to me.

60 Nora for a start.

6 speed, 14 damage in faction, Throw Axe, Block 2, Evasive 3, Detection 3, Deploy Door. 60 nora ?

I mean holy cow this thing has crazy survivability blocking every turn and evasive 3, randomly has Detection 3 tacked on too for no real reason, over all solid stats and at such a low cost, it seems a little absurd and thats before we even get to Deploy Door.

This is a 1ap ability that deploys a relic with 15 hp that allows Minotaurs to teleport up to 6 spaces as long as it reaches within 2 spaces of the door.

I mean compare that to Excavators mine.

First of all it costs 3ap to use excavators mine vrs 2 for door and you need 2 of the mines for this to work vrs only 1 door, how exactly do Minotaurs randomly get teleportation powers when there is only 1 door that is up to 6 spaces away from them? Not to mention door allows 2v2 champs to be moved and since its not to adjacent space like Mine it makes it very easy to fly a whole bunch of these guys across the map.

Minotaurs are already very strong to the point where this champ and door need a looking at, going forward in the future releases if there are more minotaurs which flesh out the theme a bit more Sentry and door will definitely need to be addressed.

Any suggestions as to what could be altered ?

 

Meh incoming overhaul of every rune.

 

Totally agreed, and have for a while. Minotaurs started off as a terribly weak and deficient theme. They were buffed to the point of insanity. This champ in particular, as an enabler and massively difficult to deal with roadblock, is an issue. The Culler is also pretty insane.

I would like to state, for the record (as a KF zealot), that I do NOT want Minos nerfed back to un-runnability - they're fun and flavorful and super excellent to fight against... except when this insanity gets rolling and there's absolutely no way to deal with the super cheap, super synergistic, super powerful onslaught that comes along with him.

 

Sentry in the name means it gets Detection 2+. Makes sense. But yeah could use some nora increases there (70?)

 

Minotaurs has no range, no Beckon Demon, No relocate foe and a few other holes as well.
They really need to be a in your face, with some help to get their, build to stand a chance in a range dominated game.

As a selfcontained theme Minotaurs is actually pretty good and fun. Flamecrusher is the real offender in Minotaurs.
With that said Sentry could proberly use a +5 nora and have Rank 1 block instead of 2

 

At least he doesn't have arrow eater anymore.

 

Yeah that was pretty crazy.

 

Sentry is absurdly costed, I would say remove what isn't needed, I think that a no cp'd sentry would be balanced.
If minotaurs need something, spread some synergetic abilities (relocate relic) in some of them

 

Ok they have no out an out range, Flamecrushers have Flamethrowers, Sentrys have Axe Throw, Battlemages has Magic Attack,Cullers get up to 6 range with Preparation. Not to mention stacking Orbs of protection more than helps to protect from the range dominance and culler also has shroud. Why on earth would they need Beckon Demon for mobility when they have Dimension Shift ? No relocate Foe ? Again Culler has dragging attack or throw in a Spellkaiser. Most factions do not have beckon foe so not really sure why that is relevant or why you decided to mention it.

If the theme was never fleshed out then perhaps there current state would be acceptable. But going forward these things WILL need to be addressed. I played minotaurs extensively and they are fun, they reminded me of old barbarians. But just as Barbarians had to forsake there old racial in the interest of theme expansion, so to will Minotaurs have to suffer a substantial nerf to the Sentry and a mechanics change to dimension door.

 

A few things

• Dimension door gives evasive 1 without mentioning, it's dumb
• Dimension door being on cd 0 when deployed is dumb, excavators mines are cd1 for a reason
• Mino champs tend to be blocking/absorbing/evasing/deflecting or multiple of the above
• I wish their champs would cost nora

 

Imo behind Sentry the Flamecrusher needs to be looked at. Well, actually, just Crushing Blow. It feels like it should be an activated ability with a CD like the majority of other CCs, not a passive applied to every attack.

 

You are flat out wrong. Flamecruchers is 73 nora with abominable damage output and great surviveability

 

razzoriel, why do I always laugh when I read your posts?

 

Ok, banshee is not being a zealot right now so that was uncalled for.

 

Wanted to clarify he is a HE11 cow, NOT a "holy cow". And yes, he be uber efficient. (possibly a German he11 cow)?

 

You may have missed it, but I actual play Minotaurs and Flamecrucher is not balanced for its cost.
And whether or not there is "worse offenders" and what faction they may or may not be in, is really not relevant in grand scheme of a balance discussion.

 

I don't care as long as I get an option for detection 3 in UD bgs.

 

you can always run Nefari Griefbearer

 

What fantastic logic ' other factions have op stuff so this one is fine'. So because other factions have OP runes it makes it ok for this rune to be OP ? I don't have particular problems with Minotaur Flamecrusher but if you want anyone to take your opinions seriously put a little more thought into your arguments.

 

- Tried to brace people for this. Sok could jump in here and explain his understandable conundrum with Minotaurs but its water under the bridge. In this power creeped environment to introduce non-demon themes into UD you had to play "this for that" with it. Unfortunately Mino's got too much of "this" and never lost any of "that".

- At some point in time things got silly. In order to run a melee unit in UD (pfft actually in pox nora to an extent) it has to have a combination of sick damage mitigation (scale armor,elusive,evasive,arroweater etc), insane gap closing (speed or relocates), some free support (detection, cleanse for no reason) and hit like a truck on steroids. I was hoping the yeti incident taught us something, but then Mino's happened and Kas are 2 to 3 runes away from our next flavor of the month situation (due to crutching on free no kan do basically not direct synergy).

- Its a global issue, Flying and ranged need to be reevaluated as abilities on champions across the board. They are too powerful and its effect on the games balance is becoming clearer each expansion. Like in LoL, to counter ADC's they can either nerf them or buff the bruisers who counter the adc's or both. If the counter to a situation becomes ineffective you have to do something. We have to find a way to make melee desirable and more importantly effective to use without them being insanely overefficient or game changers on deploy or swiss army champs. So to do this we have to likely nerf ranged options while simultaneously making melee efficient without being wtfbbq bonkers powerful.

tl;dr - Minotaur crusher... go home your drunk.

 

First things first, I'm not a UD zealot. I play everything, but I am fairly experienced with UD therefore I think I am competent to judge from both sides.
Minotaurs strengths:
Superb initiation
Great early game
Champs offer a lot of versatility
A lot of defensive range abillities compensates for the lack of range

Weaknesses:
Lack of actual range outside of one-time use
Can't really do much other than attempt to win early game
Mostly relies on several core champs: Sentrys, BMs, Flamecrushers

To be completely honest, yes, minos are OP. They are a bit too strong and sometimes you feel like you can't do anything to win a match against them. But then again, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of other issues in terms of balance in other factions that have to be targeted first. I'm actually surprised you made this thread, since you're playing one of the most borken factions ATM (can't decide whether it's IS or ST FF). I mean, UD's general utility has been heavily nerfed when SoE actually had balance patches.

Yes, they can be really annoying and unfair, but I think insta-kill mechanics, AP denial, and unkillable champs should be number 1 priority now.

P.S. Flamecrusher received a random buff of +5hp and -5 nora(as if he was not already good), so yeah, he does need a tap.

P.S.S. nerf Timothy, Tales of Valor, Manual, Gale Force, Domination, Unholy Tomb, Ice Storm, Augur, Hippo Stampede, Coragh, AP denial, Whisperghast, Illusions, Cyclonic Fesh insta-kill lameshit, Kas Guide, Catharsis Bloom.