I think it's become pretty apparent to most players that this iteration of the formula breaks down hard when you have champions that deviate from the 10dmg/6spd/1def/50hp standard. It really prioritizes: High hp champs - Ice Dragon, previous patch MAT Low dmg champs that have abilities boosting their threat - Brewmaster, Terraformer Unorthodox purpose champs - Lifegiver, Glowing Slider Champs with highly streamlined abilities - every general-purpose beater Currently we also have a pretty big problem with low hp champs having absurdly high nora costs that prevent them from being played, since they can get completely smashed before they make much use of their abilities. Examples: Sprite, Nefari Soul Torch, Skeezick Filcher, Garu Medium, Screaming Imp There are also champs that have pretty average stats but non-streamlined abilities that cost ludicrous amounts of nora. Examples of champs who are hurt: Mutation: X + charge mechanic champs, Lich's Servitor, Hunter: rando Bane Shift on base, Ally: X on base, Eternal Lich, some Riders, Conduit, Spell Blockade As has been stated before, the most viable champs at the moment are generally those with streamlined kits, a few useful abilities, and access to stat-stacking. Amp bgs, especially poison, are also kinda cray, but that's not so much the formula as it is a couple out-of-line runes like Foulest Mushroom. My intent with this thread is more to point out outliers with the current formula and raise some discussion of those mechanics/runes. Discuss, etc.
Yeh, I think that effectively sums up all the issues that pox has with champs right now, but don't forget the ridiculous stat stacking that can still occur pretty well.
Not that formula will ever be perfect for every case, but the -30 Nora worth of negative abilities is either the cause or major contributing factor of any perceived issue with Lifegiver. Not to mention the savings from having 5 base speed and the 2x2 discount (if that still exists). If you lob enough impairments on a champ, of course it's going to end up being unusually cheap. There are simple adjustments that can be made within the system if necessary, such as increasing its speed by 1 (a big nora hike for marginal gain on a Lumbering champ). Another configuration worth considering is Weighty without Fire Vulnerability, which would put it at 67-71 nora (depending on if you take NB3 or not) while giving it some moderate mobility. I think the tricky part of balancing any impaired unit is determining at what level of efficiency is it too good and at what level of efficiency is it better to just run something that offers similar characteristics at similar cost without said impairments? (I.E. if one can have a champ with close to the damage and range for the same price as Launcher without the disability, why not run it instead?)
I would note that there has always been a formula, and designers used that formula as a baseline and then made manual adjustments to arrive the final costs. This was the case for much of the era prior to Maljara. Post-Maljaran costing became much more lax, particularly with ability costing. More recently, the formula was updated somewhat, but still relies on similar fundamentals. What did change, however, was that every champ in the game was more or less "reset" to the formula while also dramatically changing in many cases, and we are slowly adding back the manual adjustments and adjusting champion kits.
I recognize this. My intent with this thread is more to point out outliers with the current formula and raise some discussion of those mechanics/runes. I'm not trying to criticize the use of a champion costing formula as a concept. I'm just looking at broad trends in what runes people are relying on and what runes really seem to have no place because of their costing. It's a good baseline, especially for the near-standard champs, but my concern is with wonky stat configurations that create abusive-feeling runes.
Low dmg champs that have abilities boosting their threat - Brewmaster, Terraformer The terraformer seems to be about 4 nora to low for its stats, and rock slide seems to be undercosted by 2. It's about the same stats as spellkaiser, but spell kaiser pays more for less health.
It's basically my first sentence. Champs that deviate from the 10d/6spd/50hp standard tend to be those outliers that are prone to abusing the formula.
Eh, to me it reads as a statement wanting a valid response from the devs, instead of the start of a questionable discussion on outliers, and their place within the game in relation to the formula. The "Discuss" at the end of the post further leads me to think that you want your views in the original post talked about, and not really about the information. I could very well have read it wrong, but there's not really an issue with having better clarification.
I can add it to the op. But yeah, I do want these views talked about, in case anyone has other perspectives on the current problem champions.
If people have specific champs/suggestions where the formula appears to be the issue, please post them here: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/poxnora-improvement-projects-1.15380/ (Altho in general, the thread has kind of been just buffs people want, but yea.)
