Euan Ironfist

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Firk, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    1. I think he's vastly better at support than any of the Heroes you mentioned.
    2. Euan's Hammer is 6 nora and is cheaper than the normal Hammer Throw (though that one does have +6 DMG), but Euan's Hammer has AE splash damage and knockback. I don't understand why abilities have to be super OP to not be a sandbag. Have you actually used this ability? It can do a ton of damage via the multi-knockback and really disrupt enemy positioning. It's also better than the old Ethereal Hammer ability. Maybe if it had 2-5 RNG instead of 1-3? What would make it "not sandbag?" Should we just outright remove it?
    3. I think CTE is still about getting into the fight - I mean, it's not like you want he doesn't benefit from fighting in it. And he has always had this identity (Surge: Enemy + CTE + BM), so it sounds like you are arguing to change him away from his "former self" also?
    4. As for cost, he's got 60 nora in base stats, which is slightly higher than Kl'zik's 53, and she has around 40 nora in abilities (base and upgrades) while Euan has around 33 in abilities. Cost-wise he is fine, over-efficient even, but that doesn't necessarily mean his abilities work together as well as they might (tho I don't see how Block 2 + BM + CTE is a bad tanking/support profile).
    Anyway, it sounds like the main problem is the perceived identity crisis? I don't mind designing away from this, but we do have to acknowledge that we are talking about changing his core and historic identity in that case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2015
  2. Griselbrand

    Griselbrand The King of Potatoes

    2-5 RNG on EH sounds good tbh (maybe too strong? dunno needs testing at least). Also, swapping around his T1 and T2 abilites would be a big plus as well.
    Like this;

    Prestige
    Surge: Enemy
    Carouse

    Battle Leader
    Block
    Battlemaster

    So you have better options on whether you want a offensive, utility or tough as nails Euan
    Prestige/Battlemaster (UTILITY)
    Block/Surge: Enemy (MIXED)
    Block/Carouse (TOUGH)
    Battle Leader/Surge: Enemy (OFFENSIVE)
     
  3. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    The first and formost change that needs to be done to euan, is burn the guy who changed Etheral Hammer.
     
  4. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    We all love love Euan if thats not clear enough. Thing for me is he dont got any range he dont got any good defence anymore and his healing got nerfed by like 35% with concecrate change.

    Honestly he would be good if he was not 87 nora he feels like a 70 nora champ. lower his speed by 1 and lower his damage he is not a hitter dont got any skills to back that up anyway. If i want damage on him i can run surge.

    thanks
     
  5. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    If it were a ranged attack and not fixed damage, it would make it worthwhile to take Surge: Enemy on him.

    My problem with Euan is that he's just too expensive. It's nice to have him cheap when you use Carouse, but the ability just seems weird if he's not in Dwarfs or Dwarven Paladins. If he were like, low 80s, I'd run him at his current set.

    Also is Flameburst 6 nora as well? Poxbase has them listed as 8.
     
  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    His stats alone puts him at 60 nora. I don't see how he can, in any way, feel like a 70 nora champ - that's pretty absurd.

    I mean, even things like Arcadon is a 72 nora champ.
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    But then it'd have to cost more. Probably likewise if we changed it to 2-5 RNG. The thing is that it's a REALLY good ability for 6 nora. Maybe no one wants it on Euan, that's fine, but I don't think you can say that the ability itself is really bad.

    No, it is 8. Euan's is cheaper.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2015
    Cydna likes this.
  8. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    It's definitely a good ability. I prefer Flameburst on Pureblood Plainswalker or Fire Eater because if a champ engages me, I can simply knock it away and attack.
     
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Incidentally, his pre-revamp version would cost around ~120 today (he was 94 nora then).
     
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Consecration is also 6 nora for an AE heal/cleanse, which is pretty efficient compared to standard Cleanse which is one target at 5 nora.

    So he already has 2 abilities that are more efficient similar counterparts and a decent negative nora modifier.
     
  11. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    I wonder, what do other IS players think about making him 6 speed and 1-2 range?

    Or maybe just dropping him to 6 speed so he's 8 nora cheaper? Would that make him better??
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I don't think I'd want him to be cheaper than 80, that feels wrong.

    But something like the following could be done:

    6 SPD (-1)
    3 DEF (+1)
    11 DMG (+1)
    58 HP (+3)
    83 Nora (-4)
    EH becomes 2-5, damage based and the target loses all AP (splash removed): I think this would be necessary if he goes to 6 SPD for reach
    U1: Surge: Enemy (Default), Battle Master 3, Battle Leader
    U2: Block 2 (Defaul), Prestige, Carouse

    I think this would make him about the same price as Dirge and Kartch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2015
    Griselbrand likes this.
  13. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Flavour wise: Euan Should be support, talgar front lines.
     
    Griselbrand likes this.
  14. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    I do like this build much more. So he'd cost about the same or more expensive?

    Which heroes do you would you say are support heroes?

    The only one I can think of is Ctharia.
     
  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Assuming no cost change to EH, he'd be 83 there.
     
  16. Cydna

    Cydna Forum Royalty

    I think that would be a lot better. You can compare the proposed EH to Sapping Strike and Throw Axe for cost comparison.
     
  17. Firk

    Firk I need me some PIE!

    can you make it a 5 range attack, that does damage and if target is branded it does somthing else like verdict of almara

    and instead of abattlemaster, can you have an on deploy skill that does somthing. Like Ctharias mirefolk fealty, or divine favor or the like.

    Euans Breath: all champions in play gets drunk
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  18. Griselbrand

    Griselbrand The King of Potatoes

    I would really really like that


    Roar of the Drunken: When this champion dies, all champions in play get Intoxicated for 3 turns.
     
  19. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I'm firmly against euan getting a new (unique) ability
     
  20. Griselbrand

    Griselbrand The King of Potatoes

    Agreed. I just thought the Breath ability Firk mentioned was pretty funny, hence the Roar of the Drunken comment.
     

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