Terrorist Attacks in Belgium: Europe United?

when religious scholars are the goverment is there a difference between the two?

I find it funny that you think religious scholars are not THE church. even locally power is power and humans like all succesfull species are inherently oppertunistic.

haha superstition is forbidden by christianity as well. christians, muslims , jews all of you are branches of one religion. and islam has splits so even if the text doesn't change the religion sure has. surely you see that the same arguments you bring up against these other branches of islam also go for the christian branches?

And I get the oneness of god its a common religious theme even outside your specific tree. but what worries me is that you are stuck thinking like the branch. and while I can imagine being part of the tree. I still think we should cut the forest before it burns.

 

again we do not have a centralized religion. if you don't believe me go research this yourself. the caliphate even when it existed actually had no say when it came to religion that was always up to the scholars of faith. And i don't think as muslims we treated our scholars with the respect they deserved lately. Because if you really think our religion has a centralized faith then explain to me how we have some of the best scholars of our faith trapped in prisons,tortured and mutilated if they even dare speak out to whoevers in charge of the government? And this has been happening for quiet some time! If the vatican knew there were catholic priests being treated the same way by catholic governments you'd hear about this on the news but since its a muslim scholar nobody knows or you don't see it on the news now.

 

I never said the religion was centralized. you keep saying that you don't

clearly you believe me to claim you have centralized religion.

Which I didn't.


catholic goverments? what? most places keep religion and goverment seperate.

 

This does illustrate to me, what i think is the biggest misconception within much of the Islamic world (and with some in the West):

That the fundermental problem with sococieties is one of religion. That if there are failings it is because people aren't being good enough Muslims.

 

Well here's the thing i don't believe there's anything wrong with a religious government. I don't like what happened to Spain during the witch hunts by the church since no doubt thats why most westerners have a disdain for religion and government co-existing but you have to realize islam hasn't had anything like that happen to it yet and we also wouldn't be able to do that since our religion is against discriminating others and harassing other human beings for not believing in the same thing. Not to mention there is literally a verse in the quran that says "there can be no compulsion in religion". Islam may have splits buts it not really the same like judaism or christiniaty for the most part 90% of muslims follow suni islam which the same as the prophets. and the other 10% are mostly in iran and pakistan and most of us muslims generally disdain them because they do rather weird things,and are just muslims in name only. okay here's my analogy. there's a shiite mosque near mines. they never open except during ramadan for 3 days and only during the late night hours. im going in my head and thinking wtf. how can a masjid only be open 3 days out a year. when mosques are supposed to be open everyday(there's a hadith that even says mosque should be open everyday for the believers and its a practice from our prophet). and from what i've heard the shiites who go their only have 1 daily prayer. so yes im damn glad those kind of evil innovators who corrupt faith are minority. I don't know much about christianity or judaism but from i've seen around me they aren't really unified and have way more sects and schisms then islam. For us muslims the hereafter is more important. We also have a disdain for liars and people who are twofaced. During the prophets era his companions if they ever got into a position of leadership would be scared for their life since they clearly didn't want to be judged extra by god since even the littlest thing they did could be a major sin. Muslims are supposed to basically hold higher standards for our leaders but sadly too many of corrupted leaders are already in charge. Example would be the country im from. Somalia. The people there are 99% suni muslims. And a bunch of ****ed of things have occured. they weren't bad people at heart but warlords and evil people basically took over the country abolished or killed the president and ****ed up the place for everyone else. and these people in poer aren't really muslims since they commit things such as **** or pillaging or murder etc but if you want to judge us because of the evil leaders in charge you can go ahead.

 

@badgerale ... what you just said makes so much sense I feel sad now.

eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.

 

secular countries m8te. something like secularism would never work for us muslims. for us religion is the being of our life. our way of life. if we had an islamic governent system setup by the prophet and his companions why'd we then throw it away for something like secularism which wasn't made by muslims. Allah/god is the reason why we exist anything that goes against him would never accepted.

edit:
Thats why there are groups like the brotherhood of islam who actually worked for a worthy cause originally but went astray and now they are basically the same as isis.
Thats also why isis is proliferating so much because my fellow muslims in their anger over the condition of their countries and the islamic world join them even if they know its wrong.
The problem with the west is they tried to force alot of muslim countries to assimilate to their own beliefs and traditions during colonialism by giving power to people they choose ,who should've never been given power in the first place. Now western countries shouldn't be surprised that their plans to subdue and control the islamic world failed and that they created groups like isis. the best thing for the US&Company is simply stop interacting with the islamic world and let it fix itself. But that won't happen because they want to profit off our resources. human beings are greedy. And i never understood why the state of Israel had to be created. Its partially another ****up by the west. since from what i've read and heard while there was always conflict in some form it was generally peaceful in that area in the past.

 

This is probably why all the muslim countries are crap.

Who would have guessed that the strongest arguments against alowing muslims would come from a muslim.

 

so tell me you wouldn't mind having your own country effed up by someone elses. having the head of states basically be pawns for them who are working to destabilize and keep you down.
would you mind china taking over the us and destroying its history,language,food? And then telling you to start believing in what they believe learn their language? thats basically why the islamic world is in its current state. the people in charge of these so called secular governments aren't interested in actual peace; they just want profit; there is rampant corruption because of them. you always hear stories in muslim media about this going on. western values were brought in to a place that they just don't work in. islam has nothing against the values of another culture or group of people;if they are good we'll add them and emulate. if they are not so good we'll stay clear of them.Since evil people will always find a place in power. but during the era of colonialism it got out of hand and fast forward today and you see the results of the past.

there are way too many things for me talk about completely. i think this will be my last post on this topic. I enjoy knowledge. I enjoy learning something. I respect people like scientists since they are the closest thing to truthseekers/hafiq in todays world. What i don't respect are people who clearly don't care about their fellow human beings. Who only care about their own self interests and won't even share money with the poor or adopt orphans,the sick and needy. I don't think alot of western values could work with islam and so i don't think secularism is something muslims need in their goverments. it gives us problems of its own that plus it was designed with a non islamic framework in mind to suit the needs of the people who made it. Which is why you may hate me for saying this but sharia is a better way of governing for us muslims.You no doubt have heard many baseless things about it and i don't feel like im gonna bother explaining them away.As for all those things you read about like stoning to death sinners and what not. I won't lie some it is actually true but that'd only be done to like clearly evil people/psychopaths who murder people who are overzealous but those were the only tools people back then possessed so you really shouldn't judge us for that i have no doubt instead of stoning it'd just be an electric chair and administration of some poison like what you see today in your own countries prisons. Like i said islam doesn't mind adding things to itself if they are good but secularism wouldn't work in a muslim dominated country trying to stay faithful.

Again take anything i say with salt because i am not a learned scholar of the faith. So you can't trust me to not misinterpret something if you actually seek the truth about of Islam then go search for it yourself.

 

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahaahahha
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

this is hilarious, comedy gold.