Discussion: Planar Disturbances Patch Notes

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Just like that, you removed all hopes of me ever getting back. Nice way to remove the strategic aspect of the game, since it will always be about who spam cheap champions fastest,.
Shame, I really loved Pox and it helped through the hardest stage of my life.

 

Is salaam meant to be deck limit 1? Cause he's named I guess?

game 1: Inhibit power cast to hit new centaur, centaur regulator, centaur interceptor. I had various garu on the field I cant remember which

game 2: inhibit power cast to hit talgar, IS harb, squire. I again had some garu on the field, idk which again

game 3: inhibit power cast to hit moga chef,ghern sustainer. I had garu

game 4: crown of petals used on a vothsair, didn't lose upgrades. I was using fae so not a garu thing.

Other people have been reporting the same scenarios, with inhibit power, twisted emerald, crown of petals.

 

Fair enough, I'll stop.



For today.

 

I don't think the strategic aspect has been lost, so that would be a bit of a stretch. Realistically, as long as the factions are even the strategic layer should remain.

I do understand where the majority of these changes came from. Admittedly I'm not the most versed in game knowledge to further elaborate my points, so my apologies if I overstated anything or if my words lack sense.

My only concern is that Champion Nora cost can escalate the effectiveness of a theme or thematic ability and may either result in back and forth changes or incorrect assessments of their potential leading to unnecessary changes. One example I can think of is Yetis. Most people seemed to be concerned with their racial when in reality they lacked both cost-effective ranged options and champions to pull the racial off normally. Even now Apostate is 61 Nora, Scout 59, Risen 60 and a bunch of others are in the 60s-low 70s range, which means they can be played at a pace other themes can't, all while getting the best value out of each one of your champions and that which ST has to offer as a faction.

I just kind of dislike the idea of themes/decks being on the verge of being broken, where a new release or a mild change can take them to the next level (like dwarves in several occasions, potentially now with the two new ones), and having low cost champions overall does nothing but further enhance the possibility of this happening (again, in my opinion). Also you might want to re-visit champions which had Hunter abilities in general, you can run Lonx Bounty Hunter at 54 nora (Mercenary is a thing but it's still crazy cheap) and Needleclaw Imp at 56-59.

Also, Lonx Chieftain could afford to be re-designed, I don't think Camaraderie is necessary at this point and I imagine it won't be in the future assuming things stay more or less the same (champion is at an odd place ability wise too).

Edit: Also my conception of efficiency is mostly tied to Nora to HP ratios (probably due to playing mainly ST) and overall impact. For example I consider Lonx Adept and Wanderer to be very efficient runes not only due to their ability to survive but what they can do while they're alive both damage and utility wise.

 

*Cries in Jakei language*

 

So nerf them due to you can not figure it out. You can not figure out 3 champs with pull or dragging attack on them where a opponent ends up(Should this be nerfed or take out), or the actual nora gen per round with out spending great time on it, or can not know actually where someone places in AOE spell down, there are many math comps that you can not figure out in a round. If you study fascinate it is pretty easy. Because some players do not know how the rules or fascinate works just nerf something or even worse take it out completely. People spend time and money acquiring the basic mechanic of certain BGS. Then they are wiped out due to other players not spending time on it. That makes no sense to nerf something or ruin the basis of a theme. At least amp them up, or give them another basic strategy that is different. At least add slam to a Jakei or pull to the other ones. Add some kind of control element.

 

Let me be clear: I understand the core mechanics of Pox better than anyone else who has ever played this game. I can do complete damage calculations on any interaction in Pox, and know all of the procedural rules to handle any sort of relocation or targeting issue. I know them better than you. I say this without a shred of doubt; any other player is free to contradict me if they feel otherwise (and players of games usually feel free to contradict). Therefore, my ability to parse a particular board state should serve as a reasonable measure of its complexity. I could not within any feasible amount of time sort out the interactions and damage values of multiple fascinates and deafening auras. I can do it, but not on the clock. Just about everything else in this game -- yes; layered relocation triggers -- no.

Now, whether or not that is a problem is entirely up to the developers, and just because I don't understand something doesn't mean the world or the game or anyone is at fault. But, Sokolov has been very clear that the game should be at least moderately intelligible on a turn-by-turn basis. If you want empirical proof of this, look at the one consistent through-line of changes over the past year: simplify, streamline, and make comprehensible. With that in mind, the mechanics of gems involving Fascinate and Defeaning Aura were fundamentally against the most clear design imperative currently within Pox. If you accept Sokolov's design goal -- accept that he has it, not that you agree with it -- I see no conceivable argument for allowing Crystals to exist as they did.

That said, your point about wanting some sort of mechanical control back in the theme is well taken. That seems like a completely reasonable request to preserve the old spirit of Crystals, if not their precise interactions. If you have some more precise suggestions, I'm sure Sokolov will listen.

 

Disease and poison damage on relics is pretty silly. It does not make sense even in a made up world

 

I highly doubt you could calculate where an opponent ends up with 3 x champs with dragging attack. Actually the fascinate is more predictable as for dragging attacks you do not know which champ will strike first or alternate thus too many variables. With fascinate it is easy to see the overlapping areas. In both cases you have to estimate the range of the areas. In case one it is various, in case two fascinate is predictable. 2 spaces closer to the unit. If 3 champs have overlapping fascinate auras the opponents champ goes to the closest champ with the aura first 2 spaces if the champ is still in the aura it moves back 2 spaces. If the are equidistant it defaults to the champ closes to the opponent shrine. It is easy to calculate. In scenario one with dragging attacks you have no clue where you are going to end up. So should that be removed from the game because you can not predict it? What is more straight forward than you move 2 spaces closer to the champ with the Fascinate aura. With iron will you do not move at all.

 

Actually, because of how relocation is handled within the Pox code, multiple instances of Dragging Attack can be very easy to predict, and even easier to understand when acted out. Because Fascinate involves deploy order and 2x2 mechanics, it is more complicated. The way in which you are talking about this entire scenario indicates to me that you don't have a complete grasp on the elements involved, or even why Fascinate stacks become as convoluted as they do. At this point, the argument about complexity is resolved: Sok and a majority of the players, including myself and other informed veterans, all find it unintelligible. That line of discussion will get you nowhere if you want to see any changes.

 

Correct me if I am wrong kal but didnt Fascinating Luminescence order go based on the order the champions recieved the ability from Nora Gem and not the order the champs were deployed? Because of the large AoE size and Jakei walking around the order could change between turns.

 

I don't recall whether or not that got tested, but I think yes? Although theoretically, the application order would still be subject to deployment order if, say, multiple units were put into range at the same time. I'm really not certain about this, though, because the time stamping of applied conditions and abilities is both niche and apparently dependent on other things. There's another element of the rules to figure out, if I ever get the time...

If you do get any hard data on this, through whatever specific mechanics, let me know.

 

It would be smarter to think about Crystals' damage output now than dwelling on something that was bound to happen. People forget to realize that Pox isn't a static game, and that's a specially crucial information because not everything that's necessary at a given moment enters a single patch. As I see it, Sok is trying to make Crystals/Elementals closer to Shaman class - and it's been happening for a long time and very few people have noticed - so that they complement each other.

Sadly that means that standalone crystals(specific to crystals, not really elementals) or standalone jakei(specific to champions that interact with shamans/elementals or other jakei) aren't really viable, and let's be honest: having one shaman a wolf, a Sapphire and whatever other champions with Nora Gem was seriously obnoxious.

Like I said above, Pox is in eternal transition; I don't think Crystal theme will remain as it is, and although I think it's not bringing its A game yet, I know that is bound to change simply because I've paid attention to the changes throughout the last year and a half.


Some would call me a positive pansy.