Theme Overview: Barbarians

terraformer needs 1 major change: put lava storm on the other chain and let rock slide be an upgrade by itself. this alone would make him much more runnable.
some nice efficiency changes might be to reduce his range to 1-3 or to tweek stats to optimize his cost for his role. and if these could lower his cost enough to enable shatter to be re-added then all the better

all that aside its an issue of being forced to take a terrain bomb that only potentially helps your enemy. water can only help aquatics and may cause you to be drowned. snow can only help artics and give them ap gen and potential domain bonus damage. both of these are also physical damage which is what rock slide is on top of which the stated sub sets of champs wont be affected by the bombs. lava storm while providing similar tho less impactful drawbacks at least provides perseverance countering and is an alt damage type. we need to allow rock and lava to be taken at the same time so that the champ isn't being bogged down with options that are only desireable in very specific splits.

 

they are not easier to play with and are far less competitive. This from an IS zealot

 

Barbarian Archer needs sunder back
tundra barbarian needs .....__.....ugh
Renegade still says he has pillage on the card but in game he does not, what's the deal with that?
can we put storm clan chief on the fury of the storm, and can we give her some upgrades????? i know of NO other champ w/o upgrades
sigh.. This one really got me today.Prestige got nerfed to a very short range aoe....(supposedly to be able to distract nocando champs) but starseer lost prestige alltogether -_-
Barbarian Elite still has execute AND power attack?!?! They don't work together.
sarghavian hearder 72 nora 39 hp 5 spd, 2-3 range unit...sigh this can't be right
I don't have solutions, but that's what our BIASED af developer not mentioning names (Sokolov) gets paid to do... Just sayin

 

So that means a potential Warchief rework in the future? Or just Barb stuff in general?

 

I got drawn to this post again. I must say Bars do still need work. @Thbigchief Got any ideas about barb elite and chieftan? Elite was a badass beater at one point who could face off with ghalroon. But now he's eh...
And chieftan how can I say...there are cheaper options for invigorate. and he can't take a hit to be sent to the front lines as a beater. i don't get his purpose now at all

 

I really liked the idea of :instill panic "if the closest champ was a barb then it gets frightened also"
I mean the voting on shirtless sex machines won! All we got was shirtless hairy neanderthal-like savages
Let's give this topic a rise again and work towards a common goal?

 

Wild Chieftain rework idea:
http://www.poxpoints.com/PHP/maderunes.php?sortRune=Champion&faction1=3&faction2=3&runeName=Wild+Chieftain&rarityImage=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2F_themes%2Fglobal%2Fframes%2Flarge%2Flg_frame_rarity_rare.gif&statsImage=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2F_themes%2Fglobal%2Fframes%2Flarge%2Frune_stats.png&defense=0&attack=12&speed=6&hitPoints=50&minRng=1&maxRng=1&totalNoraCost=73&runeImage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.poxpulse.com%2Fimages%2Flarge%2Fwild_chieftain_270x310.jpg&runeEffect=&deckLimit=2&size=1&creator=%3F&flavortext=&races=Barbarian&classes=Warrior&baseAbilityNames1=Incite&baseAbilityNames2=Attack%3A+Physical&baseAbilityNames3=Vulnerable&baseAbilityNames4=Throw+Axe&baseAbilities1=47userMade&baseAbilities2=545&baseAbilities3=1316&baseAbilities4=1362&baseAbilityIconNames1=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_manic.gif&baseAbilityIconNames2=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_physical.gif&baseAbilityIconNames3=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_vuln_physical.gif&baseAbilityIconNames4=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_whirl.gif&oneAbilityNames1=Warchief%3A+Blood+Clan&oneAbilityNames2=Warchief%3A+Storm+Clan&oneAbilityNames3=Inspire&oneAbilities1=2875&oneAbilities2=2872&oneAbilities3=733&oneAbilityIconNames1=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_blood_clan.gif&oneAbilityIconNames2=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_storm_clan.gif&oneAbilityIconNames3=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_allybuffs.gif&twoAbilityNames1=Declare+Vengeance&twoAbilityNames2=Instigate&twoAbilityNames3=Howling+Attack&twoAbilities1=3155&twoAbilities2=1465&twoAbilities3=2470&twoAbilityIconNames1=https%3A%2F%2Fd2aao99y1mip6n.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fability_icons%2Fsmall%2Ficon_declare_vengeance.gif&twoAbilityIconNames2=ht

- Had to wake this thread up. Possible new version of incite and direction for Chieftain...I'm going to make the defensive version for Barbarian guardian next.

- The idea of this chieftain would be for him to be an aggressive front line enabler. This incite grants manic which is powerful but for short duration and does add AP in a more creative way then just the old flap AP + beserker. It also gives bastion just for flavor...but can be pulled or changed.

 

hmm but i like the current wild chieftain better, sorry...
sure the current wild chieftain is too costly, wish it was possible to remove that horrible warchief: Blood clan or buff that ability so its useful. (rend + life siphon would be awesome instead of fearless, or fix fearless so it works against all type of fear/horror etc then it might be useful.)
But then again its just a 6 Nora ability, while REND 3 is an 8nora ability? ok guess the warchief: blood clan isnt so bad, its just very bad compaired to stone clan.
and invigorate 2 is a 12nora ability.
so if it was cleaned out of those 2 abilities he would be a 67 Nora monster.
berserker 3 + exertion is really good on him

but would i use him? hell yeah, sadly brutality barbarian would get kicked out asap then, i really start to dislike MANIC.

 

- Yeah but current chieftain... all his stats are a waste if you truly want to make invig 2 worthwhile.... dislike Manic ? What about spot Manic without the constant micromanagement since its temp. This new chieftain is a concept more then a final design but current one has invig as a placeholder...it doesnt fit.

 

Current one has the problem it costs just too much, I cant play melee that costs 80+ that cant survive to get into range. Either i think of them as a DPS or Meat/Tank. and i dont think it could handle 1v1 very well either?
Invigorate + exertion is a cool combo, but it has berserker also so I cant save up AP, those 3 AP helps a DPS survive since its distance.
Since Warcry is a race ability, and its cheaper then invigorate it would be a much better option but hmm i dont even use dwarf king anymore since i think warcry is sad now. so dont think that would help either.

Problem with Manic
1- its way to often combined with impatient, so the unit takes 5hp/turn
2- i have no idea on how the walking works, it is really just useful if getting engaged before or if there are no other champs nearby
3- cliffdiving is no fun
4- Most units that have the ability have no defense (exception Tortun Fishkisser who is a great Manic rune)

Could be much better with spot Manic, especially if you can hit enemies with it .-p

 

Do you want barbarians to be team/phalanx playstyle or duo/single champs? I think Thirst for Battle is an amazing barbarian ability, but both the brewmaster and crusader are much better with it then brutality barbarian. Most barbarians are kinda weak in 1v1 situations for their nora cost, with some exception like renegade and ghoulhunter.
But maybe it will be solved anyway, iam thinking about what sokolov wrote somewhere that they are looking on dmg stacking abilities and limiting them. Then maybe 55-60hp is enough defense for barbarians?

 

After testing FF UD Minotaurs its their playstyle I wish barbarians have, allthough not so powerful. They almost lack all types of range combat, but make up for it by multiattack, vivify or secondary attacks like throw axe...and absurd mobility with those OP doors. Dragging attack, leaping, fellowship oh so good...

well back at barbarians and testing, not the same mobility or AP gen without dwarfs.
what i miss most are probably dragging attack (minotaur culler) and all the leaping, barbarians are badass in highdmg number and good ranged but so immobile and slow

 

Thoughts on Widl Chufun if it looked like this?

 

Why is combo attack: declare target almost as expensive as normal declare target 8 vs 10 nora?
I admit, i've never run our declare target runes more then just a little little in some PvE, north cross cardinal i rather use with sermon. And interrogator is nokhan use, allthough tempted to try a Punish + stall bg someday.

tested declare target on interrogator and i quit when i saw how it worked, cant see the use of it on a melee unit, even if its a range5 ability, and as combo attack, hmm? what survives 2 hits from wild chief (he will run with 16+dmg) that we would need 3 ap on.
if it was declare hunted = giving beset to nearby units then i would see how the barbarian hordes could swarm in. but this ability is better on ranged/support units.

like the idea but, not sure if i would ever use him, because to get off combo attack you must have full AP + exertion and max 1 ap to move, thats just not doable. (now if barbarians had some catapult/relocate ally/swap i guess it could work)

 

Declare Target requires 3 AP to use while Combo:Attack can apply it passively and without worrying about CD. However, you may be right about the ability not being as useful because of his damage output. We could tap his damage 2-3 points for the cost reduction. With Exertion and Berz2 he would be like 67-68 Nora which isnt half bad.

 

Its just that with the nerf on battleleader, any damage is very bad for barbarians. so Exertion is getting costly to use, before it was almost free of charge, 8hp was healed fast by 2 kills. (just thinking of barbarians, not holy theme that has so much heals from CtE ability)

Not only because of his dmg output, its that with berserker 2 he has 7AP max, so he can never get combo:attack without using Exertion 2, and then he can only move 1 square. Now if we would remove that berserker ability and put defender,commander,battlemaster,fellowship,vigorous cry or anything else that aoe buffs barbarians he could save up to 10AP then go in (4 squares atleast) and get of a doublehit and start off the fight as a leader.

 

Chieftain

- What do we think of this version of incite, granting manic and bastion of courage. With throw axe an aggressive support?

p.s. @Markoth Your take is decent but Warcry although OP makes more sense then vivify as this is the chieftain as opposed to just a beatstick. I also agree about the combo declare target as I don't even like declare target which makes its value of more phalanx champ combat spam. I'm more and more feeling like beserker is a sandbag on most champs. Definitely ranks 1 and 2, not being able to store nora means these champs are typically first turn useful or only the turn after engaged (beserker 3) in that case..if it lives for double tap.