New Vampire Dude

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by potatonuts, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    but it would work better if he had 1-3 range still. Him being melee just makes it janky and much less useful.
     
  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    uhhh how so. The ability doesn't interact with it's base range and it being range 1 means it doesn't have 2 spaces of its base range being covered by blood spear.
     
  3. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Read the thread I've pretty much covered it all already. I wonder how many of you have actually played him because it seems like it would be obvious if you had.

    and? That's entirely meaningless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  4. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    I've played him. I run him in every meta FW bg I have.
     
  5. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    So you must have noticed a big difference in how he played before the change vs now right?

    I don't see any reason of having the +1 speed over 1-3 range, he was so much more versatile like that.
     
  6. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    He is saying that an extra range attack is more valuable on a melee champ than a ranged one. So if he had higher base range he would be getting less value out of the secondary ranged attack.

    Though I've always thought that speed is slightly overcosted, especially the cost of upgrading from 6 to 7 speed.
     
  7. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Oh i get what he is trying to say but it just doesn't work like that.

    For starters you would get more value out of Blood Spear if he had 1-3 range just purely because it cannot be used in melee. There is a whole host of situations that can arise from that and prevent you from getting any real benefit out of Blood Spear.

    With a ranged attack he would be able to attack and use Blood Spear in the same turn on the same target and he would be able to proc the heal effect without needing outside assistance as his only way of doing so now is by using Blood Magic which just so happens to have a range of 3 spaces. Furthermore the only reason anyone has come up with for running him in this state is because he has Commander which is on the same upgrade line as Blood Magic.

    When you actually look at this and see how he could be used before and compare it with how he can be used now there is not one single advantage for him having Blood Spear over 1-3 range and Life Siphon.

    Yeah ok he is runnable, but before he was much more versatile and filled an important role within vampyre bgs which he can no longer fill and I don't see any reason for it other than shoving Blood Spear down our throats.
     
    badgerale likes this.
  8. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    And just to note, "runnable" does not mean that a champ will find a place in tier 1 or even tier 1.5 decks. Pox has lots of "runnable" champs at this point, but unless a champion is actually exceptional, either by being the best at what it does or providing a unique and needed option, it probably won't -- shouldn't -- end up in a serious deck. I think that neither Bloodbinder Count nor the New Vamp Dude meet either of those criteria.
     
  9. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Although new guy is a little underwhelming by himself I've had some fun messing around with him. Mandate in a UD split yielded some pretty impressive results.
     
  10. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I'm not really making any comment on the champion, but you are completely 100% absolutely wrong in saying pseudo ranged attacks aren't worth more on melee champions. Like, I don't get how this is even a discussion. I thought it was a given.

    I know you give a token argument about being able to trigger blood spear's 2nd effect himself, but this is incredibly easy to trigger in any sort of bg and really isn't that significant.

    If he was 1-3 ranged and had spear, you'd essentially be paying for 20 squares of ranged on blood spear that are virtually useless (some utility with LoL dmg and the heal and non-basic attack but not much).
     
  11. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I was speaking with regard to Bloodbinder Count and the changes made to him specifically. If you take mypoints into consideration along with knowledge of how the champion plays now and how he played prior to being changed then I think you could easily see how this change has negatively affected him.

    I don't mean to be rude but I'm fed up of repeating myself in this thread.
     
  12. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Like I explicitly said, I am not commenting on your evaluation of bloodbinder count (which I think it wrong but whatever), rather that specific point you brought up.
     
  13. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I made that point with specific regard to Bloodbinder Count, arguing it outside of that context is pointless.
     
  14. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Okay, we'll argue within this context then. Disregarding any other changes, blood spear is far more valuable on Count now than if he had 1 - 3 ranged, far far more valuable. Agree or Disagree? Because it seems like you disagree with this.
     
  15. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Disagree ofcourse.

    Looking at it on paper I can see how you'd think differently but I believe there are more potential situations in which it would be useful to him as a ranged champ than a melee champ. I should add though that most of my reasoning for this has been done within a full vampyres theme, outside of that my arguments would be less relevant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    You better elaborate on this.
     
  17. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    That sounds like a threat.
     
  18. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    It's a joke.
     
  19. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I'm a potato
     
  20. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Further elaboration would be nice though
     

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