Charged Abilities Rework Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    So as some of you know, Charged abilities up for a full scale rework because of its jankiness.

    It's been rough because of how many parts and champions these changes hits, but I believe I have a good framework mapped out below.

    Please comment on the following. Try to focus on the bigger picture rather than on how it'll affect any specific individual champion, but if you have a particular rework for a specific champion with the ability, feel free to mention it, but I need to make sure that the overall conceptual framework works before I can start tweaking individual champions.

    Notes:
    • Generally speaking, 1 Charge expended will be calibrated to be equal to an effect that deals 4 DMG or something like Distracted for 1 turn
    • In many cases, champions that have these abilities now will need to be updated
    • The cost of these abilities will change to reflect their new functions
    • This is not a comprehensive list, but is intended to give the idea of the general direction
    • In most cases, the abilities that currently generate Charges will no longer exist, but some of them might be preserved or adjusted for specific individual cases
    • The overall goal of these changes is to remove ability and complexity bloat on many Charge-based units, as well as make the value of charges more consistent between abilities
    • There may be abilities that interact with Charges in interesting ways introduced, but that's Phase 2

    ~

    Not Currently Charges

    Ancient Corruption:
    (Passive) While this champion has 1 or more Charges, it gains +5 DMG, +1 SPD and <ability value=99>Life Siphon</ability>. When this champion is successfully attacked, it loses a Charge.
    (Active) This champion gains 6 Charges.

    Warguard:
    This unit has 5 Charges. When this unit takes damage from an attack or spell, it loses 1 Charge and that damage is reduced to 0. When this unit has no charges, it is destroyed.

    Ammunition/Reload
    Ammunition 1/2 will use Charges to denote how many attacks are left, while Reload can give Charges if the champion captures a nora globe.

    ~

    No Longer Charges

    Sole Purpose
    When this champion makes a basic attack, it loses 3 HP.

    This simplifies the whole interaction with Sole Purpose. Bulwark or Regen can provide a similar overall balance when combined with this new Sole Purpose instead of charge gain abilities. For champions like the Boltcase, the use of it as a negative ability is not impacted.

    Charged Barricade
    Simply replaced by Barricade Barrier.

    Recharge (Renamed to Flagellant)
    This unit loses 5 HP and the current cooldown of this champion's other abilities are reduced by 2.
    (Becomes a Wrath only ability)

    Charged Portal
    - Removed

    Nora Hex
    Replace with Backlash and the like

    Summon: Tortalleon
    This unit becomes <condition value=immobile>Immobile</condition> for 2 turns. At the beginning of its next turn, a Tortalleon Pygmy without upgrades is summoned to an adjacent space. This ability begins on CD and is removed after use. (AP 5, CD 5)

    The whole charge thing here isn't super important.

    Charged Heal:
    Healing Mind (renamed to Healing Strike)

    Reclaim Remains
    Destroy target Stitched Remains. The closest friendly Stitched permanently gains +1 DMG and +5 MAX HP.

    ~

    Spell Charged Stuff

    Charged Attack/Disease Breath/Fire Bomb/Frost Cone/Magic Bomb
    Renamed to Spell Charged: X
    Add: Gains 1 Charge when a Spell is casted


    ~

    Mutation: X
    Add: Gains 1 Charge at the beginning of its turns.
    Add: Multiple abilities to these.
    Add: All Mutation X abilities are removed when it reaches the final stage (and therefore the unit stops gaining Charges)

    ~

    X Amped
    When this champion makes a basic attack or is targeted by a basic attack, it gains 2 Charges. This champion loses a charge at the end of its turn. While this champion has at least 8 charges, it has +1 SPD, +2 DMG, +2 DEF and <ability value=137>Frost Aura 3</ability>.

    Renamed to Attack Charged: X
    Amped is a beater type Charged ability, so the Charge gain is based on attacking or being attacked.

    ~

    Death Stuff

    Eradicate
    (Passive) This champion gains 3 Charges when a real champion is destroyed.
    (Active) Spend all charges. Target champion within 5 spaces loses 4 HP for each charge spent this way (up to 40 HP).

    Unleash Memories
    (Passive) This champion gains 3 Charges when a real champion is destroyed.
    (Active) Spend all charges. You gain 2 nora for each charge lost this way (up to 40).

    ~

    Not Sure Yet:

    Soul Trapper
    - ???

    This kind of thing is a neat way to utilize Charges and create some choice on the player's part to decide how to use the resource, but is the kind of thing that can get out of hand in concept. It's probably fine on very specific runes/ideas?
     
    Kiruzen, TheBulwark, sWeNibor and 6 others like this.
  2. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    Charges allow for the aspects to be really dynamic. What is the game plan for the aspects with a charged change? The proposed changes would help AoO, but get weird interacting with AoG and AoD. How can we keep AoC the same? He is my favorite way to punish campers. (AoX= Aspect of X)

    edit:
    I really enjoy nora hex. Nora hex can be subtle, however the combination of nora hex + tariff was cool.

    I guess portal mage might get a cost reduction or heal champion/mass tacked on as it has no attack to trigger healing strike. Vengeant Templar with healing strike makes me roll my eyes a little bit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  3. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    His will almost certainly just have Supercharged lumped into the ability itself. So basically no change for AoC.
     
    TheBulwark, Etherielin and OriginalG1 like this.
  4. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    Neat!
     
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Note that the above is the case with most of the "special" Charged abilities like Eradicate or Unleash memories - they will still work but they will gain charges internally and won't be gaining charges off separate abilities.
     
    Etherielin likes this.
  6. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    didn't read anything that should cause an issue, though I'm not seeign the leoss monks abilities on here?.

    spell charged X is either "bad" or "good" depending on if it's any spell that charges them or only enemies and if the required count to activate is still 4.
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    As I said, this is not comprehensive. But expect all existing Charge abilities to go through similar transformations.

    It'll be friendly too. It's likely to remain in the 3-4 charges range.

    But the general concept across the board is that instead of Charge abilities having different ways of gaining charges depending on champions (and thus requiring multiple abilities to even work), all Charge abilities will have their own built in specific way of generating charges. I may keep a few "extra" ways of generating or interacting with charges for specific champions/concepts, but in general most of those will go away.
     
    Thbigchief and Woffleet like this.
  8. Karamasov

    Karamasov Lord of SL & Master of Challenges

    Is Sea Song gonna be touched with these changes?
     
  9. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    sounds good if that's the case then i expect at least in the case of owl raider and lonx channeler I believe it to be an improvement( only two units i've ever used with these abilities )
     
  10. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    These look really cool
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, the current idea is actually to turn it into something that works for Tortuns indirectly.

    Something aloong the lines of "All champions gain Ponderous and X for 4 turns."
     
    Kiruzen, Tweek516 and OriginalG1 like this.
  12. Karamasov

    Karamasov Lord of SL & Master of Challenges

    Then I see no abuse. Excited by where the changes might lead.

    And finally RIP to Sea Song abuse decks!
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Charged: X abilities now gain their own charges when a Spell is Played and renamed to Spell Charged. Ability functionality is the same otherwise. Nora costs now align with the non-Charged version of the abilities, if they exist, and some Charge costs have been changed as well.

    Spell Charged: Attack
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 3 Charges: This champion makes an attack at its RNG. This is a free attack (costs 0 AP and is not on the attack chain).

    Spell Charged: Disease Breath
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 5 Charges. Area Effect 2, Range 5: Affected units take Disease damage equal to 80% of this unit's DMG. This damage ignores DEF. Champions successfully damaged become <condition value=diseased>Diseased</condition> for 2 turns.

    Spell Charged: Fire Bomb
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active)
    Spend 5 Charges. Area Effect 2, Range 5: Affected units take Fire damage equal to 80% of this unit's DMG. This damage ignores DEF. Champions successfully damaged become <condition value=charred>Charred</condition> for 2 turns.

    Spell Charged: Magic Bomb
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active)
    Spend 5 Charges. Area Effect 2, Range 5: Affected units take Magic damage equal to 80% of this unit's DMG. This damage ignores DEF. Champions successfully damaged have their DEF set to 0 until the end of turn if their DEF is greater than 0.z

    Spell Charged: Blast
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 5 Charges. This champion makes a Magic attack against each opposing champion within its range.

    Spell Charged: Frost Cone
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 5 Charges. Area Effect 2, Range 5: Affected units take Frost damage equal to 80% of this unit's DMG. This damage ignores DEF. Champions successfully damaged become <condition value=chilled>Chilled</condition> 2.

    Spell Charged: Flame Fist
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 3 Charges. This unit makes a Fire attack at +2 DMG at its range against target unit.

    Spell Charged: Frost Kick
    (Passive) This champion gains 1 charge when a spell is played. (Active) Spend 3 Charges. This unit makes a Frost attack at +2 DMG at its range against target unit.
     
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  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Nora Hex
    When a spell is played, this unit gains 1 charge. Shrine nora generation for opposing players is reduced by 1 for every 2 charges on this champion.

    Eradicate
    (Passive) This champion gains 2 Charges when a real champion is destroyed.
    (Active) Spend all charges. Target champion within 5 spaces loses 4 HP for each charge spent this way (up to 40 HP).

    Reclaim Remains
    Destroy target Stitched Remains. The closest friendly Stitched to the relic permanently gains +1 DMG and +5 MAX HP.

    Harvest Organs
    When this champion recovers a nora globe, it gains +5 MAX HP permanently.

    Boundless Vitality
    This unit gains 1 charge at the start of its turn. While this champion has 8 or more charges, whenever it activates a base ability, the cooldown on that ability is set to 0 and this champion loses 1 charge.

    Divine Wellspring
    (Removed - Vex redesigned with Boundless Vitality and Divert/Righteous Shield
     
    Kiruzen, Woffleet, Gnomes and 3 others like this.
  15. sWeNibor

    sWeNibor I need me some PIE!

    Mhm, interesting so charge decks want to do lots of spells. To unleash their potential. Atleast many of the charge abilities will proc like this.

    Is deploy charged still gonna exist?
    Chronomancer!?!?

    Does this means a nora cost reduction on Vex?
    Or around where will it be?
    Healing breath could be an option also
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
    MaruXV likes this.
  16. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Great stuff. Only thing that seems to be getting hit a little hard is reclaim remains. Is it still going to have the same range?
     
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    5
     
  18. concealedweapon

    concealedweapon I need me some PIE!

    Does this mean that a Warguard champion can be instantly killed if you cast a spell that causes it to lose all charges?
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, but there won't be such a spell anymore.
     
  20. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    So what are AoG and Portalmage going to do now? :>
     
    Kiruzen likes this.

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