Agreed - Demon race tag tends to hold A LOT of UD runes back. Minos have always had their own ecosystem within UD because of not having it, which allowed Sok and the devs before him to freely shape them as a theme.
back when DV was the stable I removed spells like fading and sacrifice because the rush game was the main focus of UD where u win or die by rushing and draining a champion so sacrifice really wasnt going to play a major aspect. The global effect is why certain spells like mindslicer boomerang are one of the best in UD and thats why DV was so great (i know this is becoming more repitive and i am sorry )
Sure I can pencil this in. I can't see this being more than 35 nora. I think -2 SPD is significantly worse than -3 SPD.
Im just going to drop in, Hi Deep elves are very strong, but a certain spell not working against other UD decks is a total boner for them. That's all i wanted to say
I honestly don't get where everybody is coming from. I for one think that DEP is perfectly fine, but that since the majority thinks otherwise, they're most likely right. Anyways, new Recharge on her would be perfect; how much nora would she be?
I mean, the way Minos play were entirely crafted out of thin air by me with a very distinct direction. There were a few minos but they were just random beaters. I am quite curious as to what you and @Gutsa think that makes being non-Demon benefits them? Because honestly, from my perspective, the whole Demon thing is a bit silly thematically but is not really a front-line balance concern.
Just for the record this discussion for me was the main purpose of this thread and no making actual finalised changes or propositions. I know I took a fair bit of ur time today but I am more than happy to go through any of the items on that list and discuss it or any UD related balance topic but the attitude by certain players that most of the themes are fine is frustrating
Um.. Recharge is 4 right now, and probably wouldn't change much. We'd probably put it on an upgrade line (replacing MA?) with some of @Regulate's ideas such as Initiative or Shatter. I also liked the Grant: Mobility idea and I can see her upgrades being a bit janky (and very "old school" design before there were good support abilities).
It implicitly defines the way the champs are designed and how the function. Because minos are not demons, they don't have access to a whole set of spells, relics, equips and abillities that are designed for demons, and so that lets them freely develop their own interactions without any fear of reprecussions that it might cause to the whole array of champions with Race: Demon.
For me, discussing specifics is more valuable, but this thread was a good starting point. Hopefully now that you see what I requested/discussed via DV you can anticipate what is useful for me
you said that? do you imagine they are better than say? dragon? jakei? yetis? I want to understand ur definition of ''very strong''
Like what? What spells/relics/equips are so powerful that Demons are basically pre-nerfed for having them? So if I added more abilities like Phantom Dash, for example, doesn't that help Demons without this problem? And if this is true, then Imps and Goblins also benefit the same way as Minos right since they all have their own race to key off of? ~ I mean, I think it was historically true - I just don't think this particular line is as relevant as it used to be, though it's somewhat true that pure Demons don't get a particular racial because it'd affect a lot of champions much the same way Undead doesn't, but I don't think it prevents them from having champ based synergies?
Not sure if it's a good idea for it to be on upgrades. She shouldn't be too cheap if she gets that abillity. She was solid and runnable at 72 nora, being at 69 with Recharge should be just fine.
DEP IS fine. She is a well balanced and effective champion. It's just that some people have the attitude that because a rune used to be stronger that means the current version is underpowered or deserves buffs. This has always been the attitude of many players, and if it was pandered too then you would either get no change in decks from expansion to the next or you'd get power creep as new runes need to be even stronger than the staples to see play.