Discussion: Patch Notes July 11th 2014

I don't really like the calculator side of this patch. if anything we seem to have made some stuff highly inefficient, some stuff too efficient and the things with lots of hp that were 2 efficient before the patch seem to have taken a price hike of only 3 nora and are still to efficient. and some of the pricing is just wacky. *removes firk mindshredders* *hides augurs away because they are not OP at all*.I mean its suppose to get worse before it gets better right?

 

I really like this readjustment patch. I think it brings back some runes that were overpriced and unplayable. Some runes still seem out of kilter, but after some ability adjustments I think we'll be golden and can move forward.

 

Had a game or two with the Monolith. Not quite as insane as I expected, but still very good. His damage does dip down fast I guess, but he should cost more simply for the need to attack him to "dip" him. ^^

 

I think this change was insanely bad and you should rollback to last week.

also are timberwolves fixed yet? having that rune be entirely broken isn't fun, if you can't fix the code at least revert it to back when it worked!

 

Um can we please fix Firk Diplomat? 95 nora seems too high. -10 nora would do.

 

I would be ok with the -12 from removing marsh awakening, and I would be happy with a further -5 from downgrading mindwipe aura.

 

Marsh awakening is very map dependent. I dont see it as a useful skill. I run diplomats in my firk bg and I dont have any terrain changing spells or anything so its really useless to me.

EDIT: @Gab, yeh what you said about the prices seems right. Diplomats used to be in the 70ish nora range pre-revamp.

 

Uh, no. Remember before this patch people complained about runes being too low on the low end and too high on the high end? Now we have people complaining again? I have a feeling it will never end. Let's move forward with individual ability re-evaluation/re-cost, then move forward with individual champion re-cost. Moving backwards is, well, backwards.

 

I think we should scrap all runes. Start with a new release and then complain about those.

 

Nope, they are broken still. They were supposed to have been fixed but they aren't playable.

 

I finally made it to the end of this thread....and through looking through a good chunk of my collection....and reading anything that seemed pertinent outside this thread...

And I'm not sure where to start, so I'll start with; Quit kneejerking before you sling your foot across the room. Most likely those who need this advice will likely not realize it, but I tried (Not that hard, but I tried).

In a perfect world, which I do understand we don't live in, this cost calculator could theoretically be tweaked to where it fairly costs a unit ~95% of the time. I honestly don't think we have too many abilities that actually deserve a champ be individually looked at so long as DoG stays vigilant in the idea of minimal ability bloat. Like mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread how Strength of Body on a high hp champ might warrant some additional cost. I'm not sure I agree with that logic, because if hp costs are done right, the champ SHOULD be paying for that additional 'oomph' already. SoB (love that acronym) should have a fixed cost because all it is doing is providing an alternative means of having damage. One that your opponent more or less can heavily influence

Now, I have no background knowledge of what system was used to do the initial revamp (Going through alphabetically, looking at ability density, etc), but I imagine the most prolific abilities were looked at first, and are likely the more fairly costed. Then lesser spread abilities like Shrinking Scion were towards the bottom of the list, and kind of just had a price tacked on to it.

It's the only way I can fathom Mysian Lamia being 93n with Lifedrinker and Soultap. Looking at a bulk of other 'plainer' units with similar stat lineups, there is no way Scion is a ~20n ability. And then look over into SP at Lance Admiral Sceian....and my jaw almost literally hit the desk (from dropping and nearly fainting). His kit is arguably more plain than the Lamias, but there's nearly a 20n difference between the two with the toolkits I upgraded.

Now, I'm trying to reason why this might be, and I can only imagine that a) Heroes need to be slightly more efficient in the scope of abilities and stats to justify that Hero tag, b) Melee units should be cheaper than ranged units, because, well, ranged. And c) Some abilities are most hopefully towards the end of the 'ok, this costing works' re-evaluation of costs.

There's just too many for me to distinctly point at everything and cry that the sky is falling yet again. I only pointed those previous two out because they were pretty much the first two I looked at.

And what's worse, is we have no idea how this calculator works, so offering suggestions might just be blowing hot air, but I'll try some things that may or may not seem obvious;

• As I mentioned, melee should cost less than ranged, a LOT less...maybe not, but I'm wondering if the extra nora cost on longer ranges might be a touch too high.
• I'm also thinking that some stats may still have a disparity in 'ramping up' costs. A few of the cheaper runes still feel too cheap for what they do. I'm wondering if earlier levels of hp and damage might not need a slightly higher nora tag, and slim the curve on how quickly those stats get more expensive.
• Speed seems to be the fulcrum for where champs need a huge chunk of stats, or a laundry list of abilities to justify a cost. Maybe there's some way to rename this stat and have it maybe be nothing more than an AP 'well' or something, and adjust AP accrual to nora cost?

Shorthand; I'm pretty sure there is a pricing model for this new calculator that would ensure fair pricing regardless of what toolkit gets added, it's just a matter of figuring out what a fair price is for the huge number of abilities we currently have, on top of figuring out what the right scaling should be for costing stats. Having to go in and manually tweak costs on specific champs shouldn't be the 'go to' solution, it should be a very rare occurrence after this cost algorithm is figured out.

As always, thanks for reading. WALLOFTEXT, away!

 

- unless summon axe ..."summons" an axe just dump it. This cool champion is ruined by this wonky hoop jumping mechanic that actually requires a seperate rune slot. This ability needs to make an axe mans fate and get removed afterward or just get rid of it.

 

- lamia, defiler knight dont look right.

 

Yeah, remove it in favor of Equip: Axeman's Fate or something. Move Provision to base and then put Equip: Axeman's Fate in the second upgrade row.

 

I think the costing algorithm may have a flaw regarding the amount of raw hp champions can have without even downsides, you see almost 1/1 hp/nora ratios on 6 speed champions without any drawbacks, for example.

 

Almost every champ in my ST deck went up in cost - things like Crystal Phoenix, Chronomancer, Jakei Frostbow, Yeti Curate, Freeze Bug Keeper - by 5, 10, even 20 (!) nora. It's reeeeeally frustrating to have nerf upon nerf upon nerf to stuff that didn't need it.

But I understand it's all part of the revamp still, and I'm sure it'll work out eventually

 

has anyone noticed the titans? Holy pajamas!