(OLD) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

You know what... I'll just take Hex off right now and modify compromise on the curse...

How does this sound?

Curse rank 1 Range 1-4. Cursed 4 + 5dmg if already cursed. Nora 3
Curse rank 2 Range 1-6. Cursed 4 + 5dmg if already cursed. Nora 6

This relies on range scaling and nora as the main difference from the ranks. Rank 1 is low enough for a good budget alt harassing attack while Curse two is now a competitively strong alt attack. Comparing to hinder movement you get extra range and conditional damage in exchange for a worse Dbuff.

How does this sound?

 

Flamestrike is 1-5. Hawk Attack is the only standard 1-6 range damage ability as far as I know (Hex too but limited damage balances it out). And I have already made several general discussion posts pointing out that I don't think any alt attack ability should grant more than 3 effective range (for example, 1-4, 2-5 or 3-6 are fine, but 1-6 is not. It's way too flexible). Curse wouldn't be too bad though due to not dealing much damage. Just my 2 cents

 

A suggestion:

• Curse is removed from the game. All champions gain magical attack as replacement.

No? Ok, whatever.

Quick question: considering a ton of abilities like flamestrike, arrowshot or web deal full base damage (or in the later case, it includes a clause to deal minimal damage 10), why curse which have a very weak debuff have to be limited to 50%? It would be too broken to change it to 100%? Or to include a "To a minimum of 8 damage" clause?

 

@Shimaru I know you hate curse the ability... outright removal will probably be a no go though. If you'd like to discuss changing it to be an impactful ability that's fine. Right now it's more of a harassment ranged attack meant to slow down and wittle the enemy down. I still think that type of attack can be salvaged with additional range and lower nora cost.

So if this was to be juiced up to a beefy attack. What would you like to see?
Rank 1. range 1-4 this unit makes a ranged attack at full damage + 5 if already cursed. Otherwise it becomes cursed 4.
Rank 2- range 1-4 This unit makes a ranged attack at full damage + 5 if already cursed. Otherwise it becomes cursed 4 and defiled 4.

Or perhaps Curse could be consolidated into one rank and simply be: When this unit makes a successful attack against an enemy champion that unit becomes cursed 2.
As you say replace all rank 2's with magic attack.

@WraithxxV ah, I see, flamestrike is only 5 rng. still it's comparative damage is +12. effective +9.

 

Curse would have to go to cd 2 then though and probably +1 ap, or all units with it would essentially have range 1-4 (but then, hawk attack champs are played like 6 rangers anyways). At full damage, I would go with:

Curse
Rank 1 - This unit makes an attack at its range against a target unit. If the target is cursed it takes an additional 3 damage from this attack , otherwise it becomes cursed 4. Cd 1, 3 Nora.
Rank 2 - This unit makes an attack at its range against a target unit. If the target is cursed it takes an additional 3 damage from this attack and becomes confused 2, otherwise it becomes cursed 4. Cd 1, 5 Nora.

As for flamestrike, yeah, what you said.

On a random side note, a melee champ with Curse and Frozen Aura would be fun as heck.

 

@WraithxxV You know what... frozen aura is essentially the curse condition with another name. There's potential to stack these in the future or simply make a mirror curse aura. However, now that I think about it you essentially get cursed aura with DMZ and a unit with coven. Good future idea though

 

Curse1
Range 1-4
Does 5 damage to target, ignoring Defence. Target becomes Cursed for 2 turns (-1 Defence and speed) If target is already cursed it lose 5 additional life.

Curse2
Range 1-5
Does 5 damage to target, ignoring defence. Target becomes Cursed for 4 turns (-1 Defence and speed) . If target is already cursed it lose 8 additional life

Reason to take level 2: Longer range and more Loss of life.
Cost for them I have no idea

 

@BansheeX's idea is the best honestly. @WraithxxV's is completely detrimental to FW. The idea us to make FW relevant again. Not nerf an idea into the ground before it even hits the battlefield. Curse can be cleansed, so this isn't some huge deal. Curse's debuff isn't that incredible so the extra damage to an already cursed champion is greatly needed.

 

Mine was full damage. So you deal full attack damage and Curse + additional effects for normal ap with cd 1. But hey, I also liked Banshee's proposal.

 

Hmm, I'm wondering if we even really need to put a range on it. Just spitballing;

Curse 1 (CD2); The nearest opposing champion takes 50% damage, and becomes cursed 4. If already cursed, becomes defiled 2 /3n?
Curse 2(CD2); The nearest opposing champoin takes 70% damage, and becomes cursed 4. If already cursed, becomes defiled 2 /6n?

Low weight, 'infinite range' (kind of like Bloodtracker), but it adds the unreliable positioning conundrum to the mix. It may not always hit what you're aiming for. Your opponent can counterplay the ability by keeping cheap/stealthed units between your forces and their higher value targets.

Not particularly fond of it myself, but I like the idea in general, maybe not for curse though.

 

I'd go with Banshee on this one, but I am curious if it is possible or sensible to make curse more damage than 50%... The debuff and even range doesn't seem worth it. It seems like it costs the amount of nora it should cost if it did full damage.

 

I was referring to you adding pocket range (2-3, 3-5, 4-6, etc.) while there are still things like flamestrike and hawk attack which don't have that. What would be the point of that? Doesn't make sense to do that in the first place.

 

Comparing something to Hawk Attack is stupid considering that it's OP and needs a nerf.

 

It won't get a second nerf for awhile. Thank you for bringing your intelligent opinion into the FW patch suggestions thread. It really helped to tweak our next patch list.
Also I was referring to the range and the range alone. Not stupid at all. Refer to commenter above me for that.

 

Like I said, Hawk Attack is stupid.

 

Trying to be quick:

• The debuff applied by curse is quite weak. For practical purposes, curse shouldn't be about applying curse first, and then some damage (or a noticeable debuff), but the other way around. (Yup, as ironical and dumb as it is, the debuff curse is no longer relevant enough to be the primary aspect of the ability) Compare it to snow strike: it deals regular damage at normal range, and then creates snow, which impairs movement, effectively causing an AP loss for non-flying or arctic units. IIRC, the snow by itself causes the loss of 1 spd. So there you go, no CD, no ranks, no special requirements, snow strike for practical effects does what curse does, but without the hassle associated to be an ability.
• The duration is also an irrelevant aspect. Within a witch bg, elsari coven applies the curse condition for a much longer time, again, with little to no additional effort. Outside a witch bg, curse have little to no interaction with other abilities (unlike snow strike or freezing aura), unless the player tries to take advantage of the additional 5 damage clause. (HAHA!) In that case, curse 2 is too short to be any helpful, so, IMO, if we stick to have ranks on curse, both ranks should apply curse 4.
• If an ability cost 1n, but we never use it at all, then is still a sandbag, and 1n is too much. Considering the champion designs do have a limit on the number of abilities on a champion, then we also have to consider a bad ability isn't only increasing the cost, but is also occupying a slot that something more helpful could be. Curse should be designed first as a worth ability, and then we should consider the nora cost.

We keep talking about harassment attacks, but honestly, I don't understand what that means, and more importantly, if there is still room on the game for such definition. How many meta worth abilities deals 50% nowadays? Abilities that deals 8 damage or less usually are intended to be applied quite often (cursed treasure), to be global (pain curse), and usually require the champion to do nothing special (aura rank 3), other than standing there, like ping. Compared to the large majority of meta-worth abilities, 50% by itself is enough to shoebox an ability, unless we talk about some serious debuff, which curse isn't.

So, I propose to change curse to 100% (or base damage), apply curse 4 on both ranks, change the range to 1-4 on rank 1 and 2-5 on rank 2.

 

Just spitballing:

Cursed ( This chmpion has -1 att,-1 def,-1 spd. Whenever this champion is attacked with a basic attack or abillity it loses 1 ap and the attacking champion gains 1 ap ).
Curse - 1-5, 75% , Cursed 4.Cd 4. If it was already cursed gain x nora. And the ranks could just make the nora difference and/or range.

 

if you make curse 100% dmg you will effectively turn any melee champ with curse into a ranged 1-6 champ. wont that result in a significant cost hike?

 

What if curse remained the same but lost its cooldown completely? Then you could use it multiple times each turn.

 

Would still be useless. Since it follows an attack chain you would make a supoptimal attack, followed by a suboptimal attack. No one would waste ap and nora on that.