Barbarians

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by Gaedel, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    warchief was so awesome being a 75 nora, warcry two champ. No idea why IS community begged for that to changed, unless it was to balance him, then good job. At one point you could use 6 champs with warcry in one bg? Gezzzzzzzzzzz poor IS.
     
  2. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    I do like Interrogator in my regular Barbarian battlegroup. This particular one I posted is more of a boost beast battlegroup. I'll post my regular battlegroup later.
    I don't really use Guard Tower as a detection option much, but it is a plus. I usually drop it in a font I'm either defending or contesting. I like the damage/knockback and Battlemaster it brings, as well as a relic to drop to contest.
     
  3. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Could I get your thoughts on the following Barbarians, please? Would they make the cut in your barbarian battlegroup? What upgrades would you use?

    Barbarian Bolt
    Barbarian Exemplar
    Brutality Barbarian
    Inquisitor Isran
    Inquisitor Magnus
    Ironfist Inquisitor
    Veilwalker
    Vengeant Knight
    Veteran Barbarian
    Zedin
     
  4. Atherhog

    Atherhog I need me some PIE!

    Let's talk about Bolt... 80 nora of mis-fit and one of our "war-chiefs" at that!

    Firstly, where does that 80 nora price tag come from? Stats are meh... abilities are meh...

    If we assume we are stuck with "war-chief" for barbs :( then this dude needs a re-work.

    I'd consider things like - grant aura and imbue stun - both have good flavour and would make me consider running him. Cost dependent of course.
     
  5. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - I was worried when war-chief came out since the game was in such deep flux... and now I'm sad because it "counted" as the barbarian "pass".
     
  6. Atherhog

    Atherhog I need me some PIE!

    Yeah. A quckly implemented, poor fix. And now it's all like, "we've done Barbs, nothing to see here"

    Well, they havn't done Barbs. Warchief is NOT a racial, it's a tag on which is as bland as bland things can be.

    But because it's been done, Barbs wont get touched for a year or more! Sad times.
     
    Woffleet and Thbigchief like this.
  7. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    The greens don't really know what they are doing at all and I'm not sure they want to hear big racial changes from council, they barely listen to them anyways.

    Just chalk it up as another aspect of the game ruined by Gedden. When you look at how long the list is, and how other runes were ruined even worse, well... yeah.
     
  8. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I honestly like the last barbarian overhaul they did before was a lot funner to play and gave a lot of diverse options during games don't know why they changed it again. Right now though who the f wants ranks of rend ever. Tough ranks is good and the theme would be a little better if their were more than 4 champs with war chief, but their aren't.
     
  9. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    I used to play Barbarians all the time. I love them. They were fun. Now I never play them.

    I'm hoping for a change or revert. I'm an optimist, obviously.
     
  10. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    No one care about barbarian.
     
  11. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Actually, we do. That's why this post exists. Barbarians need to be revitalized and you will see who cares for them. They had a huge following after the last SOE revamp of them. Now that is the way they should be.

    What if we do a "Totems" system for Barbarians, something similar to what was introduced in D&D's Unearthed Arcana?

    http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Unearthed_Arcana/Barbarian_Variant_-_Totem_Barbarian

    There are some very creative players who may be able to provide some good ideas on how to implement this concept. Maybe even proposing some new spells or equipment, or even propose some changes to revitalize some unused, shoeboxed runes. For the most part, we can agree that the Warchief idea is not working. The previous design was the best I have seen, but for some reason it was changed, probably because it seemed to powerful after the revamp. This Totem system could make some nice changes without overpowering the theme. Thoughts?
     
  12. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Honestly, i don't like barbs as they are now, but i'd prefer see change and work on other races, like dwarf, strux, wings for example. And i want to see more runes for trolls, so there is a huge work to be done for other races and theme. Barbs had their moment, now before look again to them some times need to pass imo.
     
    Woffleet likes this.
  13. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    so basically you want the Warchiefs to be replaced with these totem guys? Actually that would be pretty cool!
     
  14. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - This is what I feared and is somewhat a legitimate stance. When they rolled out a haphazard racial change "during" a revamp of all things (warchief) I knew it would "count" as a barbarian "pass" to many and maybe it should. This is eventually going to get old for non-barbarian advocates because the theme "appears" to be getting too much attention. Which is why devs should have gotten more input before they just scrapped a more in depth theme mechanic (though I wasn't a total fan of beast/storm clan mechanic etc tho it was at least deeper) in favor of a vanilla warchief module and change one spell and call it a day.

    - Im frustrated about the whole thing. I'm not even sure where the warchief idea came from... not knocking the person or persons but I feel it was just pushed through unfinished and not clean. And in its wake the whole IS/KF centaur/barb synergy was obliterated. I mean there is literally a rune (Sarng. Centaur) that was created at the core of this concept (for a premade deck no less) of IS/KF barbs and it (the synergy) was just tossed away. It was irresponsible and inconsiderate imo to people who were trying to find more interesting ways to play barbarians then the stale gameplay the devs keep forcing the theme...which is just run your face into the enemy over and over...which has been the case since the theme came into being.

    - I think until brainstorms result in a well thought out racial the idea of the barbarian racial should be side tabled and marginalized for now in favor of future releases of champ/spell/relic/equip based synergy.

    1) Rework the spells Pride of sarng. and Warchief inaug. for starters
    2) Inject Barbarian synergy into relevant spells. Candidates for secondary Barb clause : Might of Ironfist (barbs only loses 5 hp or 0 hp), Strength of stone (barbs get 1 rank of tough), Unbending force (Barbs gain soulsift?), Valor (This spell sux anyway I think it needs a clause for all races...barb gets X, Dorf gets Y etc price to 35 duration to 3 turns.).
    3) Do the same as #2 to some choice relic or equip. (Rallying flag, Sunder axe, wildeye bracers ?)
    4) Release barbarians in the future that have racial upgrade options that don't gimp the build of the champ.

    p.s. These are just concepts the implementation and balance are always subject of debate.
     
    Atherhog likes this.
  15. Tarth

    Tarth Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Rose colored glasses.

    You guys do remember how piss poor the last breath design was right? It only ever got 'good" post overly strong but dull units being dropped like Release Bastion, Exemplar, Fist and in conjunction with specific runes like blink, Touch or UD splits for sac and that one relic.

    All they have to do is alter Blood Rage, and tweak the warchiefs bonuses around for less rend and split Stone clan up( also is it still bugged to jump regardless of number of same clans out? That should be fixed) while tweaking some prices of champs/abilities ( Battle Leader being 15 nora as an example) and correcting odd design elements ( elite with execute and power attack when they dont stack for instance). Then release newer units that bring needed support mechanics and additional Warchiefs to take advantage of and you should be fine.

    Good core right now just needs to be fleshed out. The game needs a price adjustment as things are generally too cheap and abilities with ranks should have the lowest ranks be the expensive ones to help inflate prices.
     
    Woffleet likes this.
  16. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    I agree Barbarians should not be changed until a well though out concept is put forth and designed with all barbs in mind, as well as possible synergy or OP with other runes. However, everything should be done this way. This is what can be done in this thread. Everything starts with an idea. Then find the best idea, expand on it, design, test, redesign design as needed, more testing, etc., all before release. I'm always in favor of revitalizing unused spells, relics and equipment, and DOG has stats on what is not being used, even if we do not. I would absolutely love to see these stats.

    I absolutely loved Sarnghavian Centaur when he was released.
     
  17. badbwai

    badbwai New Member

    Barbarian Bolt - Overcosted. I don't think his kit is as bad as a lot of other people do, but his price tag is stupid for what he does. Not worth running, but when I did I went Lightning Storm 3/Rebuke 2. Rebuke is one of those skills that are sandbag half the time and awesome the other half.
    Barbarian Exemplar - Never tried her. Altho her skillset doesn't look terrible to me, it does look kinda awkward. I could see her being an okay to decent 1x, but you have better options. Since the nerfs to Tough I'd probably run her Tough 1/Barrage 1.
    Brutality Barbarian - I've been tempted to try this guy. Problem is barbs have an overabundance of melee beaters and this guy falls short comparatively. I'd run him Berserk Attack 1/Berserker 2 probably.
    Inquisitor Isran - Never tried her in barbs, but I've ran her in paladins where she makes more sense because Commander: Paladin is the only skill in her 2nd upgrade path that isn't complete sandbag.. and she felt really underwhelming. I'd run her Rend 1 /Whatever.. Commander: Paladin if you have other pally's in your BG, which is really the only incentive to run her in the first place imo.
    Inquisitor Magnus - Never ran him. Even if I did have a paladin heavy barb BG too take advantage of Consecration I probably wouldn't. Looks overcosted to me. If I ran him I'd go Resistance Magical 3/Punish.
    Veilwalker - Magical damage at 3-5 range + Hex. I really like where she's at atm. I run her with Tariff/Hex 3. Soften is nice but expensive and far more situational. Turns her into more of a 1x support kinda deploy than a 2x ranged damage dealer.
    Vengeant Knight - I like him, but he's pretty situational and you have quite a few options when it comes to tanks. He's a decent 1x include to deploy against a lot of physical damage. Block 1/Resistance Physical 3.
    Veteran Barbarian - I mean, again, the theme is riddled with melee beaters. I don't think this dude looks that bad, but I never ran him cuz too many other options. You're not going to run him for Sunder because even if you aren't running Hammerstrike or Veilwalker with Soften, you are running Zedin (or you're doing it wrong). I don't know if Melee Specialist is one of those skills that are worth maxing out or not, but 2nd upgrade path would be Barbaric Assault for me.
    Zedin - Whenever I play barbs, this is my go to beater/tank and one of few incentives you have to run barbs to begin with. I have no idea what people that play barbs that aren't running 2x Zedins are thinking. This is the guy you shove into a font with RD and your primary target for Warchief Inauguration. He has the only warchief ability that isn't a total sandbag. Tough 3 is nice, and having it passed on to something else post death is pretty sweet. But this is the problem with barbs, that's the only thing the theme has to glue it together. It's cute, but far from game breaking. Rebuke 2/Conquerer.
     
  18. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Thank you @badbwai This really helps with these barbarian champions. Have you thought about creating a barbarian guide, much like the Dwarf guide that @JazzMan1221 created? Even though barbarians may not be in an ideal situation right now, a guide will really help the newcomers who want to try them out.
     
  19. badbwai

    badbwai New Member

    If I was going to make a guide on a theme I'd rather do it on one that's less likely to, or at least should, get overhauled. As much as I want barbs to make sense, they just don't. I've tried so many different variations of barb lists now and I always reach the same conclusion: "This makes no sense". The closest thing to a viable option was a barb/beast variation. Ultimately tho, I realized it was just subpar to playing full beast.
     
  20. Gaedel

    Gaedel I need me some PIE!

    Barb/beast is the only barbarian theme that works for me right now. However, it only includes a small number of barbarians, those riding horses. It is not a barbarian theme then, but a beast theme that includes a couple barbarians. I don't see a full barbarian theme working right now, which is sad. Especially since many of the humans were changed to barbarians. Hopefully we'll see some glue (no pun intended regarding the horses) in the Ronin expansion, but barbarians are not constructs, so I'm not getting my hopes up.
     

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