Please reduce randomness. Preferably to zero.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Boozha, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    I keep losing games because the hippos from pygmy hippo stampede spawn badly or the globes from nora seep happen to only appear in my enemies fonts. I think this strongly contradicts the notion of a strategy game and should be amended. For example PHS could spawn four hippos with lower stats at the tips of an AoE 3 and Nora seep could spawn two globes with 8 nora per font alternating north/south and east/west.

    There are a few other effects - tetra shield for example could rotate through the immunities instead of randomizing them. Also some other summoning spells like feeding frenzy, gathering at dawn and the SP spell that summons pies. Also propagation abilities, mine field ... the list goes on a bit.

    @Gedden, @Senshu, tell me your thoughts; do you think this kind of randomness is supposed to be part of Pox?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    Lauremoon likes this.
  2. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    Also, Tetra-shield either needs an extra immunity or a name change to Tri-shield.
     
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  3. Skybloom

    Skybloom I need me some PIE!

    I like the idea of Tetra-shield rotating, as it adds some strategy to it, and enables counterplay as well.
     
  4. WraithxxV

    WraithxxV Active Member

    If Mine Field weren't random it would be completely predictable and would lose most of its purpose. Other than that, I liked your suggestions, personally.
     
  5. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    The enemy still wouldn't know where it was centered
     
    Sirius likes this.
  6. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    In general I like the idea of reducing randomness. Pygmy Hippo Stampede dropping hippos at the four points of the AoE, though, is a definite buff to the spell. I say this because the Hippos would be spawned in a direct line ready for Charge. Unless the stats were severely dropped, I don't like that particular idea. With that said, random effects aren't very fun and should be minimized.
     
  7. Senshu

    Senshu Administrator Octopi

    For the hippos there isn't a whole lot that can be done because we would have to completely rewritten the placement code because as @WraithxxV mentioned spells like Mine Field are using the exact same code. Also, predictable placement would also cause other problems because the random placement also accounts for unemployable spaces that are occupied by units or hazards.

    There are some elements of randomness that can not be avoided.
     
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  8. Jib

    Jib Better-Known Member

    You can avoid them : don't play them.
     
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  9. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    On the other hand the opposing player could also block the points off and would know where to put his champions to engage them on spawn instead of relying on luck.

    They are not unavoidable, it would just be work to rewrite it ... Maybe the code for barricade and other spells that affect the edge of the AE could be worked into it. I absolutely understand if you can't do it anytime soon - you have a full schedule and all - but I would like to hear of it as a long term goal, @Senshu
     
  10. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    True, but an opponent shouldn't have to do that every round to avoid having 4 drag-and-drop champs ready to Charge them. If the damage stats of the Hippos were noticeably reduced them maybe it would be okay. Carry on. :)
     
  11. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    @Boozha I am not aware of a Nora Seep / Soul Collection combo ever having been done.
     
  12. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I don't care much about the spells you mention either way, but I do feel like a degree of randomness is fun, and allows upsets. If the best player always won things would be boring.

    I really like the way goblin thievery works because it is chaotic - and fun.


    In any case, by far the biggest random elements are draw order, the map you get and which deck and player you are matched with - all of which are intrinsic to the game.
     
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  13. Senshu

    Senshu Administrator Octopi

    For Hippos, to reduce randomness the easy thing to do is reduce the area of effect, but that causes issues because then it becomes possible for one of the hippos to not be summoned because there isn't an available space.

    Regarding Tetra Shield, it would be possible to make it cycle sequentially but part of the intent was to make it a bit unpredictable because it play to both players benefit and detriment. It is possible to address some of the random elements if they prove to actually be a major issue versus a inconvenience.

    I was referring to over all design. Not how one encounters it in-game.
     
  14. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    That combo has been done in some fs/fw bgs(check the older threads on split bg forum).Fw has a lot of soul collection champs,as well as grim harvest,wake the dead and cursed treasure on tortun bokor.
     
  15. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    @Senshu

    1. SPiEkY's post is so logical that I laughed. Weird right?
    2. Smack Gedden for not being able to add.
    3. Have a cookie!
    4. What the hell, give Liquin_3rd one as well. Scares the daylights out of me. Cookie.
    5. NVM... Give your cookie to Liquin as well.
    6. All hail our new eternal overlord.
    [​IMG]
     
    soulmilk likes this.
  16. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Against ST you are already always on the watch against gale sandwiches, but yeah, it might make PHS OP. But as balance is always a work in progress I don't see why we couldn't start with a change like that

    Someone else and I pretty much had the idea at the same time, we found out when we dueled ... our decks had slightly different approaches to the matter. Recently unpacked it again and got horribly frustrated when my enemy got 5 globes nicely lined up and I got 2 in bumfk nowhere.

    But I want to win by skill and lose by failure, not by luck ... Yes, draw order is a shame, but Pox is already one of the fastest revealing card games out there
     
  17. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Thanks, was thinking of doing a FS/FW Tortun just for the hell of it. Now I think I have enough little synergy to get some BS going......
     
  18. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Interesting. Any little nuances I should be aware of before I get into it? I might send you a PM later of a bg.
     
  19. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    I tried to play fs/fw but it was bit complicated for me so i decided to play it when i have more experience.A cool combo is using death caster or polluted martyr with forced reconstruction.Also timmy is decent.I even ran assimilate on few champs.
     
  20. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Hmpf, its sorta secret ... We could arrange a game and I could make you feel the tricks
     

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