My ST BGs are usually severely lacking in 2 things, ANYTHING over 6 spd and good beaters, I'm wondering what's good that I should focus on getting in those two categories? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Well the owl raider is a 7 spd champ with pretty crazy damage potential so it can work. Gnark is a decent champ with spd 7 good stats and swarm. Juya is a ranged powerhouse that is also 7 spd technically not a beater though. The ice dragon just got reworked to be 7 spd, not much in the way of tank abilities but with the bonus and banner it's around a 1 to 1 hp to nora ratio. I'm sure there are others but those are the ones that came to mind quickly for me. If your asking for two diffrent lists ( one 7 spd and the other beaters ) I'm sure there are others that can fill the role.
Thanks! Yeah they don't have to be both, the only 7 spd champs I have is a bluefist and a blizzard elemetal. And as far as beater-ish champs I have a yeti berserker the bluefist and some NKD champs like the monk and grandmaster, but unless I'm doing it wrong NKD champs seem more of a passive beater.
I am not sure what a rune has to do to qualify as a beater, though I'd recommend Lonx Striker for the job. Pretty cheap, awesome range, ignores DEF. Yeti Icelord is also skilled in hitting things on the head. Lonx Hunter can work as an addition to the 7 SPD champions while also qualifying as a beater. Leap makes her sorta mobile and if you actually chose the correct thing to hunt she's pretty all right, I guess. Jakei Owl Raider was mentioned already but it's good enough that it's worth mentioning it twice, so you should get some of them. Also Bluefist is all right, just keep in mind that it's not blessed with Arctic when you play with it. I'd stay away from the Yeti Berserker, Blizzard Elemental, Khong Monk and Nohkan Grandmaster though.
I can try, though I don't know where to go with it. They are just bad in comparison to other things available, even if you only compare them to other champions with NKD. If your opponent knows what they are doing they are likely not going to waste AP on NKD champions and use up their Abilities/Spells to take them down. Adding counterattacks to your NKD champion is just going to make it a bigger Ability/Spells magnet with a questionable preformance enhancement for the user. Sure, maybe you'll get one or two counterattacks in if you are lucky but you are likely not going to see your opponents kill themselves on a Khong Monk anytime soon. .. and somehow that's all that both champions do in a nutshell. They counter if you trigger NKD, the end. If you take Khong Monk and compare it to another sorta unpopular rune like the Jakei Shadowstriker it'll be really tough to go for the Ape. A Poison 1 Shadowstriker comes with 2 more damage and 1 less HP for the same price as a basic monkey. Though unless you actually go for Rapid Attack 3 on an Arctic-less critter for whatever reason you'll likely run your monkey at 63-64n... but Shadowstriker gets stealth and some mobility while stealthed, which is nice, I guess. And it has a useful DoT that is not bound to a timer and causes a -1DEF debuff on the target too. Arctic isn't as strong anymore (unless it's still bugged?) but I'd still rather have something that doesn't break it's feet on IceStormSideEffects... so yeah, if I had to choose between those two.. I'd not take the monkey. And the Grandmaster is pretty much a monkey, just costs more. And if you compare it to something that's actually good.. like a Nohkan Guide to keep up with the NKD thing.. well there's no need to point out that the Guide is superior, I think. If you reach outside of the "NKD requirement" you'll have champions like the already mentioned Owl Raider, Lonx Striker, Juya, whatever else that is just a better candidate to fill your deck with than the Monk/Grandmaster.
Got it. Thanks for the explanation! I admit I have not played a huge amount with my NKD battle group (been playing more FS lately), but your explanation does make a lot of sense. Though unless they have immediate countermeasures it seems that opponents are much more likely to just flat out not attack the Khong and NKD Grandmaster instead of try to down the AP, which does add some utility, though with the sheer amount of countermeasures you can see in top BGs, that utility is not neccessarily going to be that great.
OP, mind dropping a link for your BG? ST practically bleeds melee beaters and knowing which to pick of the many available is down to the context of your BG. As for NKD, another way of looking at it is you don't control when it it triggers. Savvy opponents can deprive you of AP as a means of stalling without you having any say in the matter. If a NKD champ doesn't bring something to the table other than miss synergy, it's not going to be reliable
This is the current iteration of my ST BG, if it looks like a hodgepodge it kind of is http://poxbase.com/deck/c7wciyc78cdyc2pc4kC1=cyzcz4Cylcjxc6pcgkCqNS7@s19s13s6ns18r1_r2wege2Pe1DeHe38 Edit: the way I've been running it I hope for a blizzard elemental or bluefist first turn for 7 spd font contesting. If I get bluefist early enough I get pretty good mileage from him. Crystal guardian and ice golem for magic and physical tank respectively, shard masters probably do the most beating currently sadly with their range and multi attack. My NKD champs are meh. Computers are dumb but people can either ignore them if they have AP or one round them if they don't. The jangar arcanist can get mean in a pinch with channel damage its expensive to use too much but dropping a 17-20 damage ice aoe can be good fun. The Leoss monks will ideally get invigorate when I get them leveled. Some yeti Druids and a curate for more support. It plays fairly passively relying on the support champs and spells to allow my units to either get in close or have the staying power to slug it out with the enemy and hopefully kill their champs before they kill mine.
@OchiK , I'd follow Hiyashi's suggestions, Owl raider would fit your BG very well instead of grandmaster and yeti zerker. There a few other champions I'd suggest, but it's better if you test by yourself. One thing I have to point out, you need detection and shatter. I'd suggest yeti Scout instead of ferren pouncer, he's the handyeti in ST. Pouncer seems a bit out of place. Also, the need of a rune in a BG is best measure by the question: What's this rune's potential in my BG? For example, frost amulet may be useable in a frost bg, but you BG has 3 champions and 3 spells(including gale's 6 dmg) dealing frost damage, so the equipment isn't as useful as it would be in a frost amp BG. Snowdrift Charm is out of place too, it mainly relies on snow to have its true potential unlocked(surge tundra). It is actually possible to make a good snow gen BG(I'm currently testing one), specially with the friendly blizzard elemental in your BG, you can make a crazy lot of snow just with snowstorm and the charm. But if you don't benefit greatly from terrain generation(charm as mentioned, domain, hidden arctic, even stuff like snow shroud and soul frost), it's not really worth it even with the impending factor, because lots of things leap, fly and teleport now, not to mention hallowed ground. Also the snowcat burrow: you don't run anything beast related - tamer for that small boost(it's something), recruiter for surge, Azaren for herder. It will just drain your nora, and the benefits won't be as good as they can be. And there's lost trails. IMHO it is an amazing spell, and it can win you a game depending on the map. That's it, I really like it even though it's seldom used because of all the AoE's ST has, and it's not a buff. It is very tricky to use sometimes, so it's a good reason many people don't use it. Just play with it for a while, if you don't like it just replace with something I'm about to suggest(or whatever you wish, who am I to tell you what to do). Now I'm listing some runes I find good in ST that aren't in your BG, aside from a few champions the runes you picked are great. Ancient Implications: This spell is very useful when you don't run nora gen. It is ST's only counter to it, not to mention majestic and purified, which make it better than favor of the queen most times(although favor is very nice when your enemy doesn't understand how it works). It is great when used with Mirrored shield, insta tank. Frigid Barrier: A super spell, dealing 14 damage for 40 nora, making ice AND isolating a font. It is 1x auto because it can easily turn the tides in a game when well used, as it's main role is to help killing whatever is inside a font, capturing it, and stopping your enemy from contesting. Snow Blind: Although it doesn't look like, this spell can easily outdo Shield in usefulness. You can literally win a game with a good snowblinded spell. Vertical Push, Blink, Fading Recollections... And my favorites Retribution and sacrifice. Of course Shield is a very safe bet, but snowblind virtually protects all you champions, while shield only does one at a time(although you can use shield when it comes off CD, I seriously suggest you to never stack snow blind). Also good players are able to predict snow blind sometimes, so there are a few ST players who don't run spell counters at all. Wish: It's a personal preference. This spell is bugged right now, it gives the equip based on champion deploy order, and not on the closest one. Still it is very powerful because it means nora gen when your equip costs more than 25 nora, and you can repeat it in 5 rounds. Also it will copy ANY equipment(talking about demon shield, probably not working as intended though) so it can be pretty powerful. It kinda ruins most anti equip, because not only it makes another equipment your enemy will have to shatter, it has a lower CD than anti equip spells, so by the time ur enemy got his spell back you can make another equip. A small side note: You need provincial marker in there man. Containment unit is pretty much auto as well( I dont run it because I honestly find it too OP for my taste). Its potential is insane because it will do it's job at least once, and force your enemy to focus power on it to avoid bigger problems. These suggestions are pretty much meta(not wish, but to the hell with it), there are many more runes that are very cool in ST(most need more synergy with themes though), so I suggest you slowly try them as you acquire. Hope I helped, good luck man.
Thanks for the great suggestions! After some trades and packs this is what I've pieced together, still need more spells though my selection is lacking. I basically cut most things mentioned, NKD guys, umm some other guys I don't remember now, 2 equips, burrow. I added an owl raider, red fist, ice dragon, yeti scout, hoarfrost dragon, lonx striker. So more mobility, some aoe, shatter and detection and a way to deal with high defense. I added calming tailwinds since I added some fliers and I feel this could be a good spell to capture/contest fonts giving 4 ap, or just mobility in general. And I did add wish, I've had to run ST as mostly splits in the beginning due to lack of runes and I would ALWAYS toss a wish in there! So much fun I agree with you!
You already have the leoss monk for mobility in the for of AP gen. First of all, tailwinds only affects flying champions, of which you have 4; second, it not very good because you can't attack with the affected champions, so at best it's very situational. Also, if you like freeze bugs, run freeze bug keeper. He summons a bit weaker version of the bug, but the keeper himself is pretty useful with sever summons(careful not to kill your bug with it, unless that's your intention). But yea, I suggest you play so you can get to understand the real power of your runes. Feel free to ask anything else.
If Leoss champs appeal to you at all, here's a setup that features the more splashable Leoss champs that blend well with what you already have: http://poxbase.com/deck/C4vCiyCyfca1C1=CyzCobCoqCgks19s7bS2Ls13s6nr1_r1ye1MeFe2PeHe2b Additions: Arcadon - Beefy beater with Amplify and Shatter Chirai Outrunner - 8 SPD(!) Detection with Pin Down Freeze Bug Keeper - More reliable replacement for Freeze Bug with Sever Summons Jangar Architect - Magic damage source with spot Barricades for Gale Force sandwiches Ward of Ailur - Beefy support beater with Motivate and Sunder(!) Frigid Barrier - Very solid spell as explained by Lushiris Gale Force - Not usually 2x auto but suits this setup rather well, Jangar Architect in particular Halberd of J'thir - Often overlooked as a source of spot Precision and Retreat 1, great for this setup Darius' Favor - Grants Arrow Shot (3-6 RNG) and Declare Target(!) to rangers (Outrunner, Bug Keeper, Ward) Ice Carved Greaves - Grants a melee Frost attack (+4 DMG/Chill 3), useful for engaged ranged champs or conversion from Physical damage Skystorm Spear - Excellent source of alt damage (1-6 Line) and Paralyze 1 This setup provides Detection, Sever Summons, Shatter, Magic damage, alt damage (Frost/Fire/Lightning), spot Cleanse/Precision and damage ramp (Pride of Ailur, Motivate, Sunder, etc.). I intentionally limited rune selection to C/U/R rarities to ensure acquiring the components you currently lack wouldn't be unnecessarily difficult. Feel free to respond with any questions you may have
