IS back in Dark ages of power again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anotherblackman, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    I'm going to tell you exactly how it happened, because there is a consistent theme of this in Gedden's way of thinking that I can confidently apply the fallacy template to this situation and be reasonably sure its correct:

    Gedden thinks: Global abilities are bad so all global abilities are bad so change all global abilities to non global, check for global abilities, give ranges, check, done.

    Just because mash potatoes are good doesn't mean you should only eat mashed potatoes. You need to understand the potato better and you will see that it has potential to be good in other ways too. But if you only allow yourself to think (or are only capable of thinking) that mashed potates are good, therefore not mashed potatoes are not good, then french fries gets owned - unjustifiably.

    Edit: However, even with this way of thinking, I can appreciate that he hired an incredible potato chef.
     
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  2. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Yes is with easily the best font bonus in the game and brewmasters with 2 cones for 77 nora. Also all heroes under 100 nora and are extremely tanky and do good damage. Your a zealot get over it man
     
  3. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    wut?
     
  4. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    My bad I didn't know that numerous swarming dragons in Surge SL would be none gamebreaking, but untill IS get swarm construct(or atleast friggen bulwark) I can safely say that this swarm champion def ain't even close to a powerhouse.
    Tons of people complain, but the truth in their point of view is what you should be seeing.
    If there is none then by far, go ahead and ignore it.

    If only you had hit fist of bastion with the same light tap you gave Ancestral Avenger...

    Before I even posted this thread I saw one phase shift out of combat right into, guess what... A catharsis bloom. 3 rounds guy was back in the font.#balanced20damage70hpmonsterghostbearunder100nora

    I also used fist of bastion in a sample game. He performs lackluster, exactly to your intended specifications of what a tough 3 tank should be, expensive and ready to die before any real damage is dealt.

    I admit I used to use it to instakill a summon under 20 hp every now and then, but truth be told calling it an instakill is just dumb when the core design is of execution. I don't see why you couldn't have just lowered the hp cap to 15 increased cooldown to 3-4 and called it a day. But no, you had to make it a gimmick strategy very similar to how the Original Bastion plays. Why not made it like widowmaker and or decapitating blow had it work based upon remaining Hp(like widowmakers ratio and cooldown are still more powerful)? No... took the easy way out, +3 cooldown on a pointless bad designed champion.


    The reason why Im coming off like this is cause so many little examples of design have actually been explored during these "patches" All I ever see is global adjustments to abilities, (never the ones that need adjustment like defensive suckdom strike) and easy button fixes like pariah and unequippable and removal of race and class to make that rune pointless.

    If the game designers don't design , why even bother playing?
     
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Let me get this straight. Your complaint is that nerfs and buffs aren't... complicated enough?

    And your idea of what WOULD be complicated enough is if instead of +3 CD, I had done +2 CD and -5 HP on the trigger?

    ~

    Anyway, I am not saying the process of buffs and nerfs is perfect or anything, so don't get me wrong. But decisions you disagree with aren't automatically "easy way out" or "not designing."
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  6. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Oh. Really.

    What about **** no.
     
  7. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    First off, Yes that is exactly what I am saying. I been playing this game since percentages were in attack(and played enough to comprehend it as well) and design of champions, factions and runes have never been this linear in design.

    I'm not going to go into collateral nerfs with cost increases because we all know deep miner was too cheap at 46 nora(a cost already increased after revamp,from when the thing was so called OP) and by a "algorithm adjustment afterwards) but the friggen moga cannon with lumbering built in for no reason under 70 nora wrecking the game and has it for like other than a cost decrease for fun, was "nerfed" and that deep miner was nerfed at the same time not to mention every other champions with lumbering. You as a designer of multiple factions and champions should already realize this impact and make decisions based on that.

    Atleast back when the game was designed, unintended changes to less powerful runes were most of the time reverted to keep a champion in a certain range of power or efficiency. I.E. Lumbering across the board nerfed, but to keep Deep miner from being a shoebox rune, -5 nora on THE DEEP MINER. Haven't seen anything even comparable to faction based tweaking based on these patches.

    Not enough to nerf every rune with an ability because at the same time you give no cost reductions if that ability you removed from an entire themes racial ability and basically gave not one unit a nora decrease. Some of these champions kinda needed it to be effective.

    Take for example the earth golem that since revamps release and was picked at by each patch(iron will change, algorithm changes, 2x2 changes, lumbering changes) until its the same as prevamp, shoeboxed. Its now vulnerable to 3 more damage types, has lower defense cause... just cause(?) and has no decrease in nora. But I thought the game was being ran based on cost of abilities and stats? so they Stole a stat and didn't compensate cause why? Cause I can run blessing of Almara and buff it up to a total cost of like 86 nora? Champions at that level of nora have flying and 6 speed atleast and can deal heavy damage or something that makes them tanky as heck. Now he is no longer a a bang for his buck which just sits him in the box, this time hopefully for good since earth golems aren't allowed to work.
    -1more rune to add to an IS deck. check.

    This is unhealthy for the game in general. In a not just for IS way. If all champions were retained at a level of suckdom I would understand, but Litterally KF is allowed to have a 20 damage ghost beater. Wheres my magical leeway?


    And that is to my next point. Not to mention I can't read the got dang devs mind. How do I know you intentionally left the cost of a rune the same because you feel its that powerful for that faction in a deck based around a gimmick? How do I know you really actually are trying to level the game to an even playing field if you strip the slowest faction(seriously has more 5 and 6 speed core units than any other faction for no reason other than we are IS) of its early speed boost to get a front ready but make it so thier units can cluster up and get Aoe'd by UD(who BTW bypassses our spell with numerous efects because they can, its just designed like that cause IS bonus is Op and needs circumvention). How do I know you guys aren't shoeboxing runes on purpose? How do I even know you guys are aware of the current meta Or of its true power? Are you rewarding creativity in the game or smiting it?

    With that note, have you even looked at some of these champions sitting in the Legendary catagory? Its like the game designed every legend from the epitome of a well thought out and designed champion that was released to make money that we paid for because the designs were cool, into just be bad or boring for extra cost or something compared to champions that are commons and Alot of core units were over nerfed to the point that even if we tried to add them, they wouldn't be worth it.

    The only real Legend that I can see in the perfect spot post revamp is exemplar. She is kinda costly depending on your upgrade paths, but her design is unique, makes sense with synergy(unstoppable+ incite). Sure she has tough as an upgrade tree which kinda makes no sense on a ranged beater, but who cares the core design is right there. Now go look at silverclan shock... I mean Cavalier. Atleast back then it was more cavalier than this damn abomination of a rune but its a Legend so its allowed to be a shitacular rune for no reason.

    And call me a damn zealot all day everyone, even you lead dev.Since what I say obviously has no real thoughts behind it I can safely say I am so blind right now, I see the void for poxnora. and you know what I think it deserves it for once.
     
  8. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    IS is only a middle faction right now, poxnora is doomed.

    You've heard it here first, folks. Bring out your dead!
     
  9. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    No its dead for IS players. Don't be re...nvrm. Its a free country.
     
  10. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    Damn, the 55 nora golem is now vulnerable to damage other than physical?

    Man, poxnora is ruined!
     
  11. Sealer0

    Sealer0 I need me some PIE!

    Well, I guess you'll have to convince covah and axeraiser to abandon the ship then.
     
  12. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am not even sure what you want anymore. There are so many inherent contradictions in that wall of text.
     
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  13. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!

    My problem is I thought ponies would be less boring but I was wrong and now for my faction it's especially boring. I swear I never thought I would miss corpse but Damn man. The guy already buried the original version of the game with the soe version and was balanced on many different levels. I would rather have had power creep, at least he would take baby steps and justify things.

    The new pox is "hey bros new patch, enjoy. if you don't like us choosing who is op, just like SoE, but on a worse designed scale, suck it cause we aren't going to even tell you our plans"


    Anyways done bro. Poxnora wins, Anotherblackman gives up.
     
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Wait, you are now attacking me for not communicating when I have MULTIPLE stickied threads designed to communicate?

    And you are praising "baby steps" after telling me I didn't nerf AA enough. You want me to follow the formula when it comes to your runes but not others. You want me to explain to you stuff when you tell me that what I do is without reason or thought.

    God, I am not saying I am perfect, but at least be consistent with your feedback instead of making it blatantly obvious that you just don't want to see your runes nerfed.

    Also, Corpse was not a proponent of "baby steps." He liked big changes that had impact (which goes along with his balance power with power approach).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
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  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Sure. And I actually have a note in the Crate now to make all of these "kill you outright" abilities at CD 4.
     
  16. Sammich

    Sammich Member

    This whole analogy was amazing, but I'm going to be quoting this forever.
     
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