Faction Bonuses - Scale Down?

First good logical argument. This I accept. So it can explain why themes can give some increased diversity within factions. As already mentioned, Im not against themes, just dont make them too strong, so all is about themese, not about factions or other things. Let it be possible to combine 2 or 3 themese in one deck and let factions still matter. Then there will be lots lots of diversity. Its easy to calculate and understand if you think about possible amounts of combinations.

 

There already IS a ton of diversity when combining themes. You just have to think outside of the box, and look at a faction as pieces to a puzzle instead of it just being the entire image.

 

Yes, but this discussion s about making themes inside factions much more stronger and tone down factions. This is what I fear will mean less diversity and definately less creativity. Themes may need to be strengthened a bit (or rather more made possible), but not at the cost of lessening faction imporatance and not to make some themes too strong and big so u dont need to combine them or think when making good BGs.

 

This is a fallacious argument since toning down faction bonuses tones down all themes within that faction, they are on the same boat. You could argue that this benefits splits, not themes.

 

SOK said he wants to make themes stronger and tone down factions, so themes within factions replace diversity function of factions. Im against this as I argue if themes are made more strong and/or factions more weak, it will promote to make decks built around one theme only and these kinds of decks are very limited in numbers, hence we will have less diversity. Also, with the centaur example, within a strong theme also the deck diveristy is very limited. So with strong themes we get very few "types" of decks and they all look very similar, ie not so much diversity, not so much creativity. Only with effective decks allowed to have multiple themes inside same deck and preferably with faction variation on top, we get huge diversity and allow for huge creativity. The possibilities are endless and each player can find his own "theme combination/faction combination" to try out again and again.

 

You are doing it again. If before we had only 1 meta deck with slight variations and after the change we have meta + 5 themes the diversity has increased, not decreased. What you call diversity is having more options to choose from when constructing a deck, and on that account you are correct - themes have less options than factions, which have less options than splits, which have less options than (long dead for a reason) circus. Having more options by default gives FF good stuff decks an edge over themes, ergo themes usually compensate with greater synergy.

 

also on top of this, the faction bonus itself creates diversity and creativity. Take as example a garu theme. With faction bonuses, this theme plays totally different if its FF or KF/UD, or KF/any faction. Without faction bonus, there is just "one" garu theme, with, there are 9 ways to play them theoretically. So yea this allows for a lot of creativity. If we assume each deck has room for 2 themes and each faction has 3 themes and each theme can be used in 9 ways depending on faction bonus applied, it already has endless combinations to consider. Thats just with 3 subthemes in each faction! If we use only major "premade" themes where its only effective to base the BG around 1 theme it means only some spilt is possible for each theme (Beast have several possible ones, Savage has like 2, zombies maybe 2 etc). Much much less possible combinations. Much much less creativity within themes and for decks in general.

 

No, thats what i call creativity. Diversity is what I call if we see different kinds of decks in play or no diversity if they all look the same. If the Devs create x amount of themes and only these are viable, we can all understand the games we will see (well the top rank ones) will be only around these themes. And within the themes the creativity is very limited too so games will look very similar. If we instead have "subthemes" so you can combine both themes and factions and faction bonuses to create viable good decks, then there is LOTS of diversity and LOTS of creativity. If you take away faction and themes completely, we have circus and of course it means only good stuff is used. So what I say is we need themes, but not too strong. And we need strong faction bonuses and difference between factions. The more "big" choices that also limit, the more diversity and creativity. The more importnat premadethemews and less "limiting" choices, the less diversity outside the premade major themes.

 

You really need to stop changing the meaning of words that are well established in the lingo of this game if you wish to be understood.

 

So how else do you define diversity and creativity? So it seems you are against high diversity and creativity because according to your definition that means circus? Well I dont think thats what SOK and others mean when they say they want to increase diversity.

 

You are a kf player, aren't you?

When you answer yes, I will know why you are complaining so much.

 

This is not only a straw man, but also putting words into my mouth that I never said, and that's just rude. I tried to explain to you that what YOU call diversity in YOUR example of a centaur theme is not how diversity is understood here. Time and time again you use words like "diversity" and "creativity" with no consistency, you do seem to make some good points, but it gets lost in your inability to articulate yourself precisely and causes you to antagonize people to yourself with arguments where both parties talk over each other.

 

So what has this all to do with reducing faction bonuses? I do agree, to a certain degree, themes are good and needed, but they should not be so strong so they "only" allow the preset splits, but also allow at least split themes to be possible. Still I dont see why you say there is need to remove or lessen faction bonuses and how this is related to recreating themes. I understood from your early arguments that you wanted to say now its "ok" to kill faction bonuses because we have strong themes instead. Thinnk the opposity. Now we need faction bonuses because we dont have strong themes and if you make themes stronger, but not too strong, that is good and together with faction bonuses it can have a chance to give the diversity we all want so much. Because the devs creativity is only allowing for so many "ok" themes to be thought out and if you give that extra dimension with strong faction bonuses, the players have a chance to contribute into this and find cool combinations, something that now has become more and more difficult after the revamp, when the number of abilities and are less and the options to modify/upgrade champs to fit your creative new idea is basically nonexcisting.

 

If this is true it is very bad andembarassing. Please give us a stringent definition of creativity and diversity for this game. Maybe it will make communicating easier afterwards.

 

its because you think only about FF, but I think mainly about splits.

Take the Garu. Assume you play 50% champs and 50% other runes. So you can have a split with all champs garu. Now take one of those garu. This guy will play totally different if FF KF or spilt ST/KF or UD/KF or SP/KF etc, simply because his stats and other bonuses will make him totally different. So with strong faction bonuses, it means each "theme" has more versions of it, meaning more options for the player (both the deckbuilder and the opponent). if you add the possibility to make themes not so important so a good deck can have more than one theme, it gives endless more options.

 

yea this is pretty laughable what is 1 nora compared to 1 damage on all your champs. its ridiculous.

this is something u cant just do without serious thought. like hey lets just cut everything in half.....you cant do that.....

you have to think BALANCE.

think about it which one would u rather have? 1 nora per turn or 1 damage on all your champs.

its silly.

 

Creativity can be something different and unique, like Nora Link in Centaur Regulator. It's a good ability that doesn't see play because the champion itself pretty much only has that going for it.

Diversity would be the amount of playstyles you can have in a champion, or even theme. You can make many different beast BG's only counting splits, quite a few fire BG's, and with expansion at least 3 more split psychic BG's. Yesterday I saw a KF/IS BG with magnetic Rover and the new equip, and it is actually strong.

 

Funny thing is that I did give you an explanation of how diversity is understood here and how you misuse the word, you called that post logical and agreed with it, and then continued to misuse it.