Sure I haven't been playing a whole lot recently. Decided to start it slow after the new expansion, and I like most of what I see. I did however want to bring up one thing that I noticed. I'm an SP player, and I've been using one reasonably solid SP deck since I picked back up. I wanted to do a little comparison between an old SP rune and a rune from a different faction that came out this release. So, as the title suggests, Moga den vs. Myx Hive. First let's assess the old den. Kinda cheap, decent base HP and a passive that gives out free meat (well, really cheap meat rather). However, while I am not sure of the exact stats of the Moga Pup, I know that they are nothing fantastic and they are even weaker due to G'Hernbound (unless an overseer is nearby, but considering it's role, that's rarely the case). Now let's look at the new Myx Hive For five nora cheaper you get the same basic presence. Both spawn every four turns for 10 nora. Both last an open ended amount of time. The hive does in fact drop the meat as a relic first that has to evolve, but considering it's use and theme, that hardly is an issue. Then the champ that results has stats FAR superior to the weak little G'hernbound pups. I'd like to discuss some of the finer details. While you get the champ more directly when using Moga Den, Myx hive has an end result with a much more powerful champ. The defect of having it as a relic at first is mostly negated mid to late game. If you get one of these hives out early with another myx champ the engine gets rolling and it's hard to stop. Those relics last usually for 1-2 turns by the time you can get to the hive often times, especially on big maps. Moga den is older, but it is CLEARLY less powerful. First look at the description. The den releases a pup three turns after you deploy it (pretty sure, correct me if I am wrong), whereas the hive drops the first pupae on the following turn. The HP of the pupae itself is comparable to that of the Pup, then the pupae evolves into a champ with 36 base HP that is able to be boosted with Warbanner and other effects (pup can too, but just saying). The resulting drone does not have a statistical drawback of ghernbound. All this considered, Myx Hive is STILL five nora cheaper for a far superior rune that fills the exact same role.... the difference being that you don't really expect any of the pups to do ANY damage.... let alone that of what the drone is capable of. So, with the aid of discussion, I would like to propose a few ideas. 1. Buff the Den ---- Moga Den is a very old rune, and it's clearly been outclassed due to basic powercreep. If we want to keep things the direction that they are going, it would be fair to give this rune some much needed buf***e. The first thing that comes to my mind would be to change which moga it spawns. There are several cheap moga (Moga Scout, for example) that could fit into this role. The drone is a real deployable champ (who costs 51 nora!), so I think the den could be too. Maybe it could be a random moga out of a selection (Scout, trigger, trapper, netter, sapper). They would still have ghernbound too, giving it that as a drawback to match that of the drones having to be a pupae first. And let the den proc the turn after it's deployment, just like the hive. Or some combination of the above and a nora change (At the moment Den still costs more than Hive!) 2. Cut back the Hive ----The myx engine is already pretty strong with two champs who can lay eggs and the pupae already being a relic. I think maybe making the hive less powerful is a reasonable option. I would first suggest making the pupae that the Hive deploys cost 20 nora instead of 10. That's still cheaper than deploying the pupae itself, and far cheaper than deploying a drone itself. Otherwise maybe making it proc less often or, like the Voil Kings Crypt, have some sort of duration 3. Change the champ that Hive deploys ----Pup is weak. Really weak. To match this it would make sense to make a myx equivalent of the Pup and have that deployed from the hive instead. This way, there wouldn't have to be a pupae in the first place and the champ could be directly put into play. Ok. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this Myx Hive (in combination with the theme) is as powerful as it is and needs attention. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks Moga Den is essentially shoeboxed and needs attention. If so, that's fine, but I'd like to know your thoughts. Stay classy, --PT
The following adjustments are slated for the patch this week: Myx Hive - Nora to 40, +2 turns per summon Myx Pupae - +2 turns to pop
I think I missed that thread when Burrow was released. Not like it matters but what's the worth of real champs vs summoned ones? (I know Pups, even real, are basically useless and are pretty much just there to get surge going). People seem to overlook that, like when I watched a drunk Moles deploy all the might of a Myx Adamant and Hive yet inexplicably lost because he couldn't keep pressure at the font he was trying to contest. Well that and throwing AoEs around like he was playing ST or KF. And being drunk. ...whatever I'm rambling like a zeeeeeeelot here Hive deserved that hit, like Mimic and Vex.
By the way things are going summoned Drone will end up with a 50% stats thingie like Imp, might as well get over it
So basically in the average game, we're looking at 2 Drones, costing 60 Nora? Seems like it'd be better to just put out two Myx Pupae directly since they're only 25 Nora each. I don't mind the 40 Nora, that makes sense. I don't mind the Myx Pupae taking +2 turns to pop (so 7 total without Broodbond I'm guessing?), in fact I hope this applies to all Pupae from all sources. I do question the +2 turns to summon though. That's where you start looking at getting no more than 2 useful pupae out of it most likely, 3 if you deployed it in a super safe spot at the beginning of the game. The single Pupae seems hands down better now. 2 Pupae would cost 30 Nora each. (More than if you'd just deployed the single Pupae, which costs 25 Nora) 3 Pupae would cost 23ish Nora. After 13 or so turns, it's *slightly more efficient than the Pupae. (You're still looking at 16+ turns to get your 3rd useable Drone.) 4 Pupae would cost 20 Nora each, that's what, like 19 turns after you deployed it? (22+ turns before you can use the Drone?) That seems like a VERY long time needed to make the Hive worth taking over the regular Pupae. Maybe give it a small perk to make it better than the Pupae while we're waiting? Nothing big, maybe all of the spaces within 3 spaces are Sand? Though to be honest, even that is unlikely to make it preferable over the regular pupae. Maybe 3 spaces of Sand, AND adjacent spaces are Lost Swarm? I'm not asking to reverse the pupae-spawning changes, I'm just asking for something else to make it still have a place alongside the regular pupae. *As a side note. I DO think the Moga Den could use a buff too.
How we compare moga den to myx hive is beyond me. They have two completely different roles. If moga den spit out usable moga champs that would put moga on a whole other level. That being said, hive did deserve a nerf so...... It's allgood
Wouldnt be better for the Hive to, as its lore kindof say, grant nora discount and lower the CD on myxs when one dies(even if summoned), that way you focus on real myxs spamming than spamming summons. Myx Hive: When a champeon with race Arthropod or Myx is destroyed, Myx champeons on youd BG cost X less nora and CD on your Myx champeons is reduced by 2. For every 3 friendly Myx that are destroyed, an orange or purple myx pupae is summoned adyacent to this relic. Or soooomething like this
Both those relics have totally different purposes. The moga den is simple to boost the g'hern from mass moga pups to insane damage not a tank dealer like the myx drones.
