exactly. There's a 1 in 8 chance that you'll play against FW. There's no reason to take up 1/30 of your slots to be able to counter one rune in one faction.
I disagree. UT is something a FW player wants out at some point in the game, but the actual timing of the play is far from reflexive or automatic. Er, I don't think "exactly" couples with your statement afterwards. I have a problem with a direct and dull shut down like Backlash as a point of design; its proportionality has nothing to do with that opinion.
I call something OP if there isn't a reasonable way for every faction to deal with it. This is why equips aren't OP, because almost everyone has shatter. Stealth isn't OP, almost everyone has detect. UT is op, because not everyone has backlash, and even if they did it'd be stupid to run one rune just to break down a 50 nora relic. All of you complaining about keeper, deal with it. I challenge anyone to play ST and beat me with double keepers in their bg. I won't even run nora gen counters.
Just a quick note that it has indeed changed over the years. I remember it used to be cheaper AND use to generate nora off of enemy/friendly loss of life. This gave way to FW/SP moga bgs that could field a ton of champs and gain a ton of nora. With FW bonus possibly getting tied to some amount of nora gen and losing boon of the dead I could see tomb taking a hit in impact and increase in efficiency. Early game this is worse then minor/other nora gen abilities and takes longer to start gunning in positive territory. HOWEVER late game this is an absolute beast. It's a turtle breaker.
when I play FW, UT is a auto drop ASAP as long as you won't lose mid font or get pushed on for the nora deficit. Basically drop asap as long as there's no negative effect of not having the 50 nora.
Thats cause u played no good ST. Anywho, I never play ST yet I almost beat u (made misstake) Also, play Devils prove to me u can counter the so called balanced keeper
This clarifies a fundamental difference in how we look at the game. Which isn't necessarily a problem, but this ties into the miscommunication about my condemnation of Backlash. "No negative effect of not having the 50 nora" is a more complex assessment than a one-shot deal. I think if a player is dropping UT without looking 3 rounds down the line then that's short sighted. And from the Nora Inflation thread, there's solid theory to support that 50 being an even more important number as time rolls on, particularly over a couple rounds in an early-game fight.
one game doesn't matter. consistent results matter. playing devils doesn't prove anything. he's playing keeper in a bg that's built differently. If he was playing FF ST, then that would prove something
Runes in exist in contexts beyond a single full-faction battlegroup. If a rune exhibits certain qualities in even a single circumstance, that's worth addressing.
eh. It's pretty automatic for me to analyze the game in the moment. I just see if I need the nora/will need for something else, if not just drop the tomb
Top Firking kek. Says keeper is counterable then claims UT is uncounterable. Jesus Christ could you be any more of a factional fanatic. Keeper is less than twice the cost of tomb for a body with lots of damage, more nora gen, nora stealing, and more bulk. Tomb is a 50 nora tempo hit that is at risk of being backlashed, unstable powersourced, or just flat out killed.
I believe unholy tomb is overpowered only because of the global damage. The fact that were comparing tomb and keeper really doesn't make any sense whatsoever, keeper can attack and his ability takes away nora and grants nora which is a fairly broken ability. If tomb were re-worked to let's say At the start of your turns, you gain 2 nora for every undead champion in play. Drop nora cost to 30-35 The price is pretty fair considering nora mine gives 5 nora for 25 nora every turn close comparison. Idk how well this might work considering early game it would be fairly useless.
Would have to be REAL undead or skeles would just turtle for 500 nora a turn. Also there seems to be more complaints about UT because the current meta is to spam cheap efficient champs rather than big beaters like it was under SOE. This along with summon spam causes tomb to be a valuable anti-meta relic.
KF bonus has always been a problem tho. Even when it was +2 FF and +1 Split it was a problem but KF players defended it too much for it to ever be changed. The only complaints I have seen about UT were about its nora gen but that got its cost increased a while ago.
the only time unholy tomb is good against ST is when ST us using Lonx Recruiter and furball mothers. Then unholy needs to give the FW player a lot of nora because you just obtained a lot of free meat. Or unholy tomb is to efficient because you have 6-10 champs out on the field? If you have 6-10 champions out on the field that means your champs hp is as high as snoop dog and have become un-killible due to: distance fighting, mass healing, spell protection, or relic protection. In which case the gobal damage dose nothing because your healing like a mucker at the start of your turn, and the nora generated is a small compensation for the mass amount of bull spit that is going on that lets you build such a big army in the first place.
I don't get all the backlash about capping the nora this thing puts out. Cap it at 12. It will rarely go over that anyways. When it does go over that is when it is indeed OP. Damage and nora in a neat out of the way relic that costs 50 nora. Still amazed this was left alone while so many others were nerfed, though i guess most of them were champions. Just because one item is too strong in another faction does not mean this isn't. Its a decent idea for a change.
