No seriously, NKD is silly - 8 nora

math time!

nohkan do is 8 nora

block and dodge 2 would be 20 nora total 20*1.5=30
30-8=22
nohkan do is 8 nora and it would become 30 nora
8+22=30 nora
nohkan do will cost 22 more nora

 

I did not say 150% of block&dodge, I said of block/Dodge, meanding block OR Dodge nora cost. So it would be 15 for the new block/dodge nokando.

 

/ = and,or

 

Learn to use proper symbols you utter nitwit.

 

holy Bane Shift you guys did it again. I said like 3 pages ago to make NKD into block/dodge. and no, 15 would be full ****** because it allows your opponent to pick what type of attack to have miss.

 

#47 on page 3.

if people actually read the logical posts half of the comments would be invalid or would already have been justified/said

 

As is often the case with these threads, "insert players who play said runes" claim it's balanced. "insert players who play against it" claim it's not.

Shocker.

 

Not sure why anyone bothers commenting in a Burnpyro thread.

Burnpyro is an internet zombie. I thought that was common knowledge.

Don't you know that which has no life can not die?

 

Balanced or not balanced.
Either way, a lot of people who play against it seem to think it's not fun to play against.
I'd think that if something is not fun to play against, that alone is enough to merit a change or at least a serious review.
...considering the whole point of the game is to have fun.

After all, that's what got the Myx Hive nerfed, people did not enjoy playing against it.

 

Petition to change fw

 

How about merging no kan do and zephyr shield. Now they have to move in order to have them miss instead of just leaving one in a font chillin.

Or

No kan do switched to

This champions gains dodge 2 and block 2 as long as another no kan do championis in play.


I personally.like option 1​

 

I've been accused of being a ST zealot, a KF zealot, a FW zealot and I've even been accused of being a SP zealot once. Do you see where I'm going with this? I'm not an ST player: I'm a Pox player; I play every faction, and I experiment with less popular BG's. I have a google doc wherein I maintain no less than 2 FF BG's per faction and at least 1 SF BG for every possible combination. I intentionally interact in every faction's community/forums so that I have a well-rounded perspective.

If that makes me a zealot, maybe we need a bit more zealotry around here. I know it's fun to run around pointing fingers while shouting "zealot!", but it's rather silly how often folks try to accuse me of the same without stopping to think about what they're really saying.

I've also stated on multiple occasions that I agree NKD should be changed, but not because it's "so OP zomg halp!" I'd like to see it become an activated ability with 2 ranks. Rank 1 has CD 2, Rank 2 has CD1. This gives the owning player more control while providing their opponent more options for counterplay.


@BurnPyro

I did this rather quickly, but here are some of the more direct options for each of the mentioned themes:

Dragons:

-CHAMPIONS-
Acid Dragoleech (Acid Bomb)
Draksar Morph (Metamorphosis)
Krikkinwing (Poison Cloud)
Krikkinwing Alpha (Shimmering Wings -> Poison Cloud)
Mauler (Pounce)
Skywing Acidcraw (Acid Bomb)
Skywing Imperator (Acid Bomb + Lightning Storm)
Skywing Rumbler (Lightning Blast + Electricity Aura)
Varu Dragon (Sonic Roar + Sand Spray)
Varu Howler (Sonic Aura)
Vindrax (Acid Bomb)
​

Draksar:

-CHAMPIONS-
Draksar Berserker (Pounce)
Draksar Constrictor (Damage Aura + Punishing Aura)
Draksar Interrogator (Shred Defense)
Draksar Legionnaire (Nexus Aura)
Draksar Marauder (Charged Fire Bomb)
Draksar Morph (Metamorphosis)
Draksar Psion (Telekinetic Thrust)
Homicidal Thug (Mutation: Violence -> Manic + Psychic Amped -> Psychic Aura 3)
Judge Torien (Precision + Defensive Strike + Judgement)
Sandstalker Dustdevil (Whirl of Blades)
Serpentor Paradigm (Precision)​

Myx:
Without non-theme champs, Myx do have a hard time putting together reliable responses to NKD.

-CHAMPIONS-
Acid Elemental (Acid Bomb + Deflect: Acid + Acidic Greeting)
Dunes Manticore (Petrifying Gaze + Sand Spray)
Myx Broodlord (Massive Leap)
Myx Coordinator (Lay Trap: Acid)
Myx Matriarch (Acidic Greeting + Soothing Serenade)
Myx Mindwarp (Hallucinogenic + Lay Trap: Acid)
Myx Sandlion (Ambush)
Myx Slasher (Pounce)
Sandstalker Dustdevil (Whirl of Blades)​

Skeezick:

-CHAMPIONS-
Master Trapsmith (Grant: Fire/Frost/Poison Cloud/Stone Trap)
Negation Mage (Eradicate)
Skeezick Alchemist (Acid Bomb + Grant: Action Potion)
Skeezick Arthromancer (Locust Swarm + Plant Hive)
Skeezick Bolter (Lay Trap: Poison Cloud)
Skeezick Drummer (Flourish + Battle Drum)
Skeezick Filcher (Energy Thief)
Skeezick Machinist (Fire Bomb + Deploy Gatling Gun/Land Mine)
Skeezick Torch (Lay Trap: Fire + Melt + Flamethrower)
Skeezick Warmage (Magical Bomb + Blast)
Skeezick Wylder (Magic Nova + Charged Blast + Imbue Stun)
Totem of the Fallen (Acid Bomb + Acidic Greeting + Majestic)
Vindictive Skeezick (Precision)​

Non-Champions:
I've left out self-explanatory runes like Draconic Benediction, Quickening, vanilla AoEs and obvious thematic runes.

-SPELLS-
Battle Fatigue (great when you have non-attack options ready; opponent can't respond or he'll lose NKD coverage)
Transfusion (that this hasn't been mentioned yet surprises me)​

-EQUIPMENT-
Dragon God's Staff (doubles as counter to Blizzard Cloak)
Lasher Helm (slow, but NKD games usually last longer anyways)
Peridot Sphere (can even enhance bombs you throw on top of yourself)
Processing Collar (useful in charge heavy BG's, can exploit Counter Attack)​

-RELICS-
Hive (they have to spend AP or Nora to kill it)
Scouring Jasper (same thing)
Skeezick Furnace (Fire Feed, great counter to a number of ST relics)
​

I can provide a more tailored response if you provide a BG list or two. I'm not keen on spending lots of time discussing NKD without BG lists to reference that help keep the discussion on topic. Just pick your most recent BG's and start from there

 

Possible fixes would be having it effectively dodge only basic attacks. Or up the requirement to 3 ap? Or have it dodge the first melee and first ranged a turn?

I mean the original concept was to combine dodge/block for rank 1 and then add reposit on higher ranks to consolidate abilities.

Entrep's idea of making it an activated ability with a cool down would bring it more in line with turtle/phase shift effects.

Although this does beg the question why zephyr shield isn't being complained about? Perhaps

 

Zephyr Shield is not aproblem here. In fact Zephyr Shield has to be activated by expending 4 AP so that 1 attack can miss. AND the shield only stays up for 4 turns and stacks up to 3 times.

No kan do is superior to zephyr shield in a sense that your champion doesnt even have to move and you dodge or block up to 3 attacks.

I say remove no kan do completely from game and make them have zephyr shield.


EDIT: Also no kan do is available on plenty of champions. And zephyr shield is hardly ever seen.

 

If you up the ap cost to 3 then it is no longer really that much of an advantage. I would rather it just go away and monks be separated out by their disciplines.

How about a slight cost reduction and it only be activatable once per round? It would be less oppressive while still being distinct.

 

What if Zephyr shield and Nokan do where consolidated into one ability?

Lower the expendable ap to 3 and keep it capped at 3 charges for duration.

 

I think the whole point of them not just giving monks zephyr shield in the first place is because of flavor. Monks aren't exactly sprinting around dodging attacks. It'd be much better if we just lowered it to 2 misses per turn similar block and dodge except it can block twice or dodge twice or block and dodge once.

 

Well we can find a way to consolidate them maybe calling it something else.

 

calling it something else still doesn't make monks moving around flavorful. It's not the name its the ability itself that goes against the flavor of monks.