Bringing back moragen

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by Sinkia, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. Sinkia

    Sinkia New Member

    see abilities battle drum and battle hymn

    [​IMG] Battle Hymn12 NoraAP: 4CD: 4
    All friendly champions get Reverie (This unit has +1 DMG. This effect does not stack.) for 1 turn and recovers 2 AP.

    [​IMG] Battle Drum6 NoraAP: 2CD: 5
    All friendly champions from the same faction as this one gain Benediction (This unit has +3 DMG, +2 SPD, and +1 DEF. This effect does not stack) for 1 turn and recover 1 AP.

    Honestly I would rather have battle drum on her since its 6 nora less, and i find it better.
     
  2. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    nah i rather reduce battle hymn it definitely need cost reduction
    @Sokolov can you look into this why is +1 damage 2 ap cost double of +3 dmg and 1 ap?
    if you say 1 nora per damage and 3 for 1 ap gain globally it still doesn't make sense

    3+3 = 6 nora
    1+6= 7 nora
    battle hym should cost more cause of ap but it should cost 7 nora not 12?
     
  3. Darkorona

    Darkorona The King of Potatoes

    actualy drum gives more AP with the + 2 Speed.. if recosted, battle hymn should be cheaper than battle drum.

    also i think siren song is overcosted as well.
     
  4. MovnTarget

    MovnTarget Forum Royalty

    It's +2 speed for a turn. After your turn has started. That 2 speed will net you 0 additional AP.
     
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    This is an interesting one.

    As @MovnTarget pointed out, the +2 SPD for 1 turn does pretty much nothing (other than give you AP cap). The fact that Battle Hymn gives 2 AP instead of Battle Drum's 1 AP is significant.

    I think the AP cost and CD kind of washes, 4/4 and 2/5. And largely depends on the rune it comes on more than anything, tho the difference is irking if you like some kind of consistency in how abilities are done.

    As for the nora cost, it depends on your valuation of AP gain. @chickenpox2 suggests 3 nora for 1 AP... but that seems much undervalued, as most people would jump at a 4/5 CD ability that gave 1 AP globally for 3 nora

    A better consideration might be Invigorate, which is 5 nora for 2 AP to a target at 0 net AP at rank 1 (2 - 2 = 0), and 11 nora for 4 AP to a target at 2 AP net (4 - 2 = 2).

    If we assume that a typical Battle Hymn/Drum trigger will hit 4 champions, then that is 8 AP for Hymn and 4 AP for Drum total.

    If we use the Rank 1 Invigorate as a benchmark, then giving 4 champions 2 AP a piece in the case of Hymn is worth 4 uses of Invigorate, but at half the incidence rate (4 CD vs 2 CD), so it's not unreasonable to cost this at 10 nora, add the damage and 12 doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly given the global reach and ability to scale far beyond 4 champions.

    Halve that for the AP portion for Drum and we are around 5 nora, plus the DMG buff and Drum is probably closer to 7 nora? So maybe it's slightly undercosted? (Note that the DEF and SPD are useless in almost all cases, so we can ignore those).

    But which one is better for Moragen? Well, that's a different question altogether. I think a compelling case can be made for Hymn on her instead, and it might also make for an interesting upgrade path where she can pick from one or the other.
     
  6. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    so is it properly costes or it neess to be recosted
     
  7. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It seems largely fine to me. You could potentially make the case for a small decrease on Drum (or a cost increase on Hymn) of 1-2 nora, but honestly most champions with Battle Drum are played for the ability alone. Moragen's problems are more that she is trying to do a ton of stuff at once, leading to a very high cost.
     
  8. Sinkia

    Sinkia New Member

    I think the problem is that she has too many roles.

    Support with battle hymn, siren song
    Debuffer with demoralizing and hex
    Beater with the 1-4 range and dmg

    So if she was oriented to 2 out of 3 of these, she could be great in my opinion.
     
    Sokolov and Uruboz like this.
  9. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I've said this many times.

    I'd like to see her with the options to be run similar to Snogvie or similar to Elven Bard.
     

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