Moving On (To The Next Patch(es))

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by TeaScholar, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    We can expect to see anthro get death charged 1 instead of 2. Then he'd be balanced. Anything more than that would be sending him right back into the shoebawx. I have spoken. Feel free to quote that in general "omg anthro so OP, nerf nerf" threads as you find them lying around in general discussion.

    Polluted martyr has slightly OP stats for his cost, with short lived as the only reasoning behind it being ok as is. I recommend he lose some damage (damge to 10 at least, 13 at most) and add the ability that defiles upon attacking, so that his decay works vs FW.

    Fw could also use alternative sources of defile, if not changes to our current sources of defile, as little as they are. UD seems to have more defile access than we do. Which I never understood. Befoul.. Why isn't this at least a split spell?

    With the genocide of curse, we have made excellent progress and I'm proud we can work together as a community to make our opinions more unified.
    What should be our next concerns? Everyone keeps talking about one theme or another in this faction, and if not that- some random leg among the many legs we have that suck eggs. And if not that- our heroes.
    We'd need @Sokolov to give us a hint or clue as to what direction he wishes to go next.
    If you wanted MY opinion, we could make great strides if we continued to work on liches, and their roles as undead commander type of units. I recall we wanted more defensive abilities in our faction as a whole, specifically with liches. Anthropomancer's redesign was welcome, but seemed a tad bit too offensive from the get-go. Nevertheless, he's fine, and would still be runnable with death charged 1 instead of 2 (plus the cost decrease that goes with that change). And it IS a step in the right direction.


    I'm curious if anyone's interested in adding some defensive abilities to some liches. I love frightful aura, but it's been difficult getting that through to the patches. We could also play around with some grant: aura abilities. Like grant: frightful aura would be nice. Grant: disease aura would work with zombies. Grant: Evasive would work with the utterdark's shiftyness, and would help a faction with little to no defensive abilities on the champs themselves.

    Feel free to throw as many ideas around as you wish. If it's adressing a leg/hero that we know needs to be streamlined- only add something to the table if it's a sure-shot/conclusive, or if it's something new that hasn't been brought up in another thread. Everyone already knows korsien and moragen and wonebing need help.
    If we discussed it already and came to any good conclusions for these champs, feel free to share that concluded idea as well.
     
    Djangoguy likes this.
  2. Djangoguy

    Djangoguy The King of Potatoes

    I'd like to see changes to our Heroes and/or our Legendaries (Sarinda to Hero, please, why only FS have 4 heroes?), for Legendaries, in your older post, I'm posting my thoughs on them, we can start on that thread :)
     
  3. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    I've been checking out your suggestions and I like them a lot.

    Curious though, are there any changes that are kind of a one-move thing? Like "so-&-so champ would be runnable if ability X was replaced with ability Y"?
    The simpler the change, the easier we can encourage the greens to make it happen, it would appear. All of the cursed champ changes were examples of that.


    I also would like @kalasle to help me identify the precise costs that our Legs and Heroes WOULD be at if they weren't cost-adjusted(as in made-expensive) after the revamp due to the rune-quality.
    In other words, our Legs have no justification as to why they're so damn expensive. Surely Spectral Emmissary, for example, would be cheaper if he just-so-happened to be a Common/Unc/Rare champ instead of a Leg?
    I guess my question to kalasle is, if Spect. Emmissary weren't a Leg and had the exact same abilities he has now, wouldn't he be cheaper?
     
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Spectral Emissary is actually perfectly on-cost to the old formula. Even a little cheaper. He's payin' hard for stuff he doesn't need, is the real problem. Annex and that single point of defense are 8 nora together, and that third point of range is another 4 nora. Making him 1-2 RNG, 0 DEF, and no Annex would make him 74 at cheapest. Honestly, it's real easy to take a champ, massage its numbers, and make it better. It's all about abusing that costing formula -- cutting defense, narrowing range, slicing off abilities, pumping HP, being careful with speed.
     
    TeaScholar likes this.
  5. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    annex should cost like 1 nora. Many of fw champions have abilities they don't need or ridiculously overcosted abilities.(immortal, annex, oblivion shield, dark healing, grace of dead, lich born, phylactery bound, etc)

    Why does immortal even exist in fw with the current faction bonus, unless it is like 1 or 2 nora it makes no sense.
     
    TheBulwark likes this.
  6. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    What about the Fear ability? On champs like toll taker and necrotaur. Should we begin mission: get rid of the fear?
    or nah cuz it's flavorful / should be kept, just costed differently?
     
  7. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    I think it should cost less nora and I don't think ranged champs should have fear, maybe horrific aura but not fear imo. horrific aura probably cost too much nora too, a lot of abilities are overcosted especially in fw.

    oblivion shield cost twice as much as nohkando, lol.

    I think lich king should have teleport 1, oblivion shield should cost like 7 less nora, 6 speed, and maybe 1 def. Immortality is only 3 nora but he doesn't need it with the current faction bonus.

    I think its cost should be around 85-90 nora.

    I think many abilities need their 2nd and 3rd ranks to cost less nora such as teleport. A lot of the times the increased cost outweighs the benefit of another rank.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  8. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    i disagree with reduction on lk speed bhe fine at 100 nora i run him with void sheild
     
  9. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    I think it would help him to lose 1 speed or to lose teleport. Would make him much more efficient along with other changes imo.
     
  10. Djangoguy

    Djangoguy The King of Potatoes

    Let's start with Draining Aura

    Edit: hey @kalasle, could you, please, send me the old formula? i'd like to calculate all FW stuff :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
    TeaScholar likes this.
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Old formula:
    ((HP/12)*DEF)+((DMG-10)*2)+((SPD-6)*8)+((mxRNG-mnRNG)*2)+(mxRNG*1.7)+(HP*.8)
    I've seen it and worked with it enough at this point to have it both memorized and doable mentally. I suggest the same for anyone who wants to use it more than once, it's a big help.

    Bring up Annex's cost in the crate, all the Diplos are getting kicked for it, and it's a serious waste.

    I think Lich King needs to stay at 7 speed, for the same reason Serkan is dying for that extra point of speed: it's the key break-point for Teleport + Attack every turn.
     
    TheBulwark and TeaScholar like this.
  12. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Now that witching hour has been "balanced"

    Sarinda -> cast witching hour.

    Flies away.
     
  13. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    the witching hour change was good but many witches individually need buffs.
     
  14. Djangoguy

    Djangoguy The King of Potatoes

    I second this, starting with Inkblight W(B)itch
     
  15. Darkorona

    Darkorona The King of Potatoes

    We have asked to get revel removed from inkblight for ages! she would be so good without it
     
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Here are quick tips to making a champion better in the costing formula:
    1. Cut defense. It's over-costed at low ranks right now. 1-2 points is crap, but if you can squeeze ~4-5 on a champ, it's strong.
    2. Reduce HP by 5 points -- 4 nora.
    3. Cut base abilities. Abilities are over-costed, and the quickest way to make a champ good is, in most cases, to remove its abilities.
    Here's an example: Bonemauler would have a 60 nora build if it went to 50 HP and 0 DEF.

    Obviously, this endorses the bland efficiency state which some players have maligned, but hey, if you want quick and dirty buffs, there you go.
     
    Djangoguy and TeaScholar like this.
  17. Djangoguy

    Djangoguy The King of Potatoes

    Thanks for sharing the formula!

    TOMB LORD.jpg

    I'm doing some fancy stuff to lower the costs of our beloved runes here :)

    *Question: would you run a 0 DMG champion with surge 2?
     
  18. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    If he truly costs 34 nora hell yes I would
     
    XFurionsX likes this.
  19. Uruboz

    Uruboz I need me some PIE!

    Make Ghoul a zombie already please!
     
    chickenpox2 likes this.
  20. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    You need to say this is in a video so i can laugh ot loud even more.
    Not everything can be a zombie in FW, they exist so you can make an akward undead BG with essence devourer, high warlock and a ghoul.
    And some other raceless undead champs.
     
    Uruboz likes this.

Share This Page