At some point this game will have to become cheaper if you want to attract more players.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BurnPyro, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    The upkeep cost is extremely high. The entry cost even more so.

    Don't give me that talk about "compete for free/nearly free". Sure you can, but nobody is going to keep playing like that. Gold is a joke, don't give me that. In this era of online games, Pox is incredibly costy compared to every other high profile game.

    I don't know the exact numbers/propositions.

    But something will have to change. I can't get any of my friends to join just because the game is so infuriatingly costy.
     
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  2. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    the game costs as much as it does because for years its been able to find those special people who will gladly pay for advantage. temporary advantage at that.
    and whats wrong with that? because over time the only people left in the game lobby are devs and the handful of whales they cater to. How's that working out?

    what can be done? change the business model. and fire anyone foolish enough to say things like, 'that ship has sailed'.
     
    Etherielin likes this.
  3. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Truth.

    If you think of it, most old players like myself who already have a sufficient collection simply trade around for new stuff if we need anything. It's not like we're spending money on the game anymore... well, I don't know about you guys- but I haven't.

    The damage is already done, the money's already been spent. Most players like myself have chosen a faction or two to main with, and hence why we defend our factions so vehemently on the forums- it saves us money!! From having to faction hop.

    If A or B happens, the community will likely actually attract more players.
    A being: Everything gets way cheaper
    Or B which is: the gold in this game becomes more useful/effective


    Initial reaction from the greens will likely be something along the lines of this I'm sure:
    We wouldn't be able to afford making things cheaper as we already have low funds

    But with more players there's a give & take factor.
     
  4. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    But to play devilrath's advocate, what if they cater to the 'whales' left in the game by making everything cheaper, leading to absurd monopolies of rune pools? Discouraging new players?

    owait.
    Those monopolies have existed ever since gainer900 was an account.
     
  5. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    A weird day when Ragic starts making sense.
     
    Pattn199 likes this.
  6. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    I've been saying it for years.
     
  7. Morfeas

    Morfeas I need me some PIE!

    I don't think many people fully appreciate what the news of a new expansion at this time means for the game's future and business model plans.
     
  8. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Enlighten us.

    Someone please ask morfeas since he has me on ignore. Much obliged.
     
    drathys likes this.
  9. LoganMkv

    LoganMkv I need me some PIE!

    Subscription only works if people are sure the experience is worth the first payment, even if it turns out they don't really like the gameplay. Not our case at all imo.

    Couple of easy solutions:

    1. Each player gets 30 "jokers", which can be turned into any rune (with a certain cooldown between changing, and maybe xp reduction). This way noobs can try everything they want, but having real runes is much more convinient.

    2. Completely switch tcg model with "WoT-alike" one — split all runes into multiple tiers and by faction, players grind for unlocking next tiers, can spend money to speedup it, have option not to face opponents with bgs containing higher tier runes.
     
  10. Morfeas

    Morfeas I need me some PIE!

    Oh I just realized this is a burnpyro thread. I thought it was Ragic's. Oh well.

    I'll do my best to explain what I mean, I will inevitably say something dumb as this is gonna be a long post and I'm tired (and kinda sentimental about the whole subject).

    I want to beforehand express that I DO understand why DoG are doing this. And I think it's OK, as it's their game and I'm in no position to tell them what to do. I have a certain amount of respect for certain members of the DoG team, and I mean no offense to anyone. I just wish they could keep on developing the game for the game's sake, and not for business' sake. Because that's what I'm essentially asking them to do. Forgo money to gain health.

    Ronin was an expansion that was much needed. And what I mean by "expansion" is the addition of a new batch of runes. Everything else I consider to be game balance and fixes, which in my mind are patches, and not tied to expansions. The reason it was so nice to finally get Ronin released was because it was announced for ages, certain content was already created, we had that teaser on the client laughing in our face for a billion years, and the game needed a re-freshener in the form of new runes after so much time, mostly to remind people that things are still going on.
    Announcing a new expansion (and eventually releasing it), made me wonder about the expansion's purpose. Why are we getting this expansion?

    Is it because the players want new runes? (re-freshener)
    Is it because the game needs new runes? (new runes to add counterplay, adjust themes, fill in blanks)
    Is it because the developers need money?
    Is it an expansion to accompany a big patch?
    Is it just the normal route for progression? (releasing an expansion every 6 months or so indefinitely)

    Answer these questions yourself. The only sense I make of it is that releasing an expansion is the only surefire way for the company to make money NOW (the other answers I do not agree with for one reason or another). They don't care that adding more runes makes the game more chaotic, vast, and intimidating for a new player to get into. They don't care that adding new runes comes with adding new abilities, thus increasing the game's complexity more and noob-unfriendliness more. They don't care that adding new runes makes the game undeniably more expensive by a certain percentage. They don't care that adding more runes adds even more bugs, piling onto the sky-high list of bugs that are buried on the forum's cemetery. They don't care that adding more runes takes up resources that could be used in the other fields which in my humble opinion are priorities - such as bugfixes, game balance, rune balance, new-player bridge, business-planning, promotion (don't give me the "when it's ready" bull). Hell, if you think all of these things are going as fast as they can, then fire the guys who create your expansion content and save the money. So, to close this paragraph, I believe this expansion will be released with the sole purpose of money-making. I just don't see how no matter what it contains (and I have no idea what it does, I'll give you that, but remember that you can release patches without accompanying them with an expansion), it will solve more problems than it will create. It's a bandage on a bleeding scar.

    What I fear is that this is gonna be the trend for the next couple of years - more expansion releases, more runes, more of the above. And I also fear that there's only so much content a game can contain before it collapses. You can take a look at Yu-Gi-Oh or Games Workshop for more reference. I've followed both scenes very closely for 12 years and I've seen this too much to not see it coming. In both cases the only ones still playing are the people who have built massive collections over the years and are hyped for the new expansion because they can now expand their collection even more. That's the only thing they gotta focus their money on. Sound familiar? I don't have to care about the ridiculous amount of "extended" expansions when Ronin comes out; I can just spill some bucks, complete it, and I'm done. Well guess what, my buddy who joins in 201x, DOES give a Firk if you add 5 new expansions before he has a chance to complete a decent collection with 5 BGs.

    I fear that releasing more expansions before they are absolutely Firking needed and are your last trick to play, your last resort, will just make it hell of a lot harder to salvage this game when DoG considers it to be the time to salvage it. Because unless I see a 5 digit concurrent player count someday, then no, they didn't salvage Bane Shift. They just put the game on life-support and worked the pedals for some time to provide it with electricity. Hurrah.

    The only counter-argument I've been able to think of is that they need the money NOW, or the company is broke. If they've reached that point, then everything above is nullified, and expansion release is the certain, just and only way to proceed. But if that is the case, then I would much, MUCH rather have them put up a fundraiser, than have them survive at the cost of some of the game's health.

    tl;dr Resources spent on content-creation should be used anywhere else, DoG is the devil and only wants to make money off innocent people like us. Go read the damn post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015
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  11. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

  12. KPIC

    KPIC Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Bring in the tournaments for money, been saying it for years. Fix two-three themes for each faction (no splits), make a ban list, and allow only these in tourny. Get a sponsor. Sponsor a tounry. Offer the tourny. Sponsor pays winner. Winner gets spotlight. DOG gets more interest and players (and more money). Sponsor gets exclusive ad space for service or product.
     
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  13. Bellagion

    Bellagion I need me some PIE!

    This idea is, in my opinion, even more pressing and important than most gameplay balance concerns at this point. The game is NOT approachable in any way, so even if "perfect balance" were somehow achieved, the game would still die just because it costs SO much to start playing, play anything new, or even continue playing.

    Rarity stratifications are way too high; there's still basically no control over what runes you're buying; the gold options are both limited and extremely time-intensive; and new expansions only make these problems worse.
     
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  14. Ifem21

    Ifem21 The King of Potatoes

    As I say in one of my post, but people had go there and insulted me for that: Make PACKS and BOXES more viable, and with less stratifications from the expansions. Core have, don't know, 8 expansions, while the Extended have all others, that make it very difficult to have the rune you want. Changing the maketplace sysstem to something that make more easy for all players to obtain the runes. Ex: Ronin Pack - Underdepths; Ronin Pack - FS; and there goes on. This way, we can focus in wich expansion we want the runes, and for what faction, making it more easy for new players to NOT get frustaded (a lot of friends of mine had give up from the game due to the difficulty to rune acces, even when they managed to buy the box, they won a lot of runes that they do not want, and don't say about the trade system or POXBOX, they don't really help new players in any way right now).
     
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  15. Poxbrothers

    Poxbrothers Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Something something coreset for free.
     
    Netherzen likes this.
  16. Pixyrus

    Pixyrus Forum Royalty

    INDIVIDUAL TOKENS FOR GOLD, HOLY Bane Shift ;).
     
  17. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Funny enough, it ended up that way for me as well. Regardless, they are there for reference if you need them.
     
  18. SkeletonKing

    SkeletonKing The King of Potatoes

    Slightly offtopic (but not really):

    When a new player comes in and starts receiving Decks from doing tutorials, those Decks NEED to be customizable. No exceptions.
    Lock the runes in those decks and make them untradable, whatever, but for the love of Pox, people need to be able to tweak their decks if they're going to enjoy the game.

    Allowing new players to tweak their decks opens up a whole new level of the game to them that they simply don't have access to right now.
    Right now, if a new player buys a couple packs, there is nothing they can do with those runes. They can't use them to modify decks they already have. They can't use them to build new decks unless they buy a ton of packs, and even then they probably don't have what they need to make an enjoyable deck (not to mention the cost of doing that, like BP mentioned).

    There is literally no reason for a new player to buy "just a couple packs" and get themselves hooked. That needs to change. They NEED to be able to use the decks they've already received as a base that they can start modifying. Only then will buying additional packs start to look appealing.
     
  19. ChiaoLung

    ChiaoLung I need me some PIE!

    Another option would be to make the beginners' decks untradeable and put a time limit on how long the runes stay in the account (2-3 months should be more than long enough to determine if someone likes the game enough to spend money on it). This would give people something to work with at first plus a reason to actually buy into the game. I'm just spit-balling here as I'm not sure I like this idea or not. I can think of both good points and bad points to it.
     
  20. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    I support this with the biggest offender being legendaries. For $9 you should get 2 legendaries 1 new and 1 old.
     

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