What happened to all the BG's?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by st3ck, May 29, 2015.

  1. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I think it was a mistake to remove decks like AP lock, while they might be frustrating as hell to play against we need alternative win cons and variety in play styles.
     
    st3ck likes this.
  2. Patches4

    Patches4 Member

    St3ck baby I couldn't have said it better myself.

    Also, don't let nechronos/treeman/frond/all of the above make you rage quit
    Just remember they are all doofuses
     
  3. DrSteve

    DrSteve I need me some PIE!

    I couldn't agree more. In my short time back from my break i have seen absolutely no creativity in the decks i've observed, and I don't blame the players. All of the best bgs right now simply rely on making champions a hulking pile of stats for as cheap as possible. Efficiency in champions has always been dominant, but it has never been to the point where I couldn't compete against them with one of my interaction based decks. I believe this to be because abilities are being assigned costs in a vacuum. For example, something like improve range is inherently way more valuable on a rune that's cheap to deploy and can sit in the backlines than it would be on an expensive beater.

    Meanwhile, while I attempt to recreate some of my old combo bgs, (punishing aura + enslave/force ap gain, sunder/soften + mark, sandspray spam etc...) i'm finding one of two things. Many champs have simply had these abilities removed in order to simplify the game (punishing aura), or that champs with these abilities are laughably weak compared to the stats monsters that you find in the meta.

    Finally, i'm either unsure about how this costing formula works, or if it's only used on certain runes. As I browsed through my SL runes I couldn't help but stop and notice how hilariously terrible drakewing swarm is. In order to understand how this champ could possibly be 70 nora, I then examined another 70 nora 1-2 range champ that I'd seen played; heretic overlord. I am struggling to identify how these champs both exist in the same cost formula. How is my 6 spd 8 damage careless unit with multi/evasive somehow equally expensive as a 7 spd 10 damage + surge + aoe careless giving + free equipment granting champ? Are multiattack and evasive valued so highly that giving careless to a 6 spd unit with paltry damage still warrants a 70 nora pricetag? This formula seems either incredibly poor or incredibly inconsistent. Things like surge are hilariously undercosted (especially surge: moga and surge: skeleton), whereas other abilities are huge cost sandbags on champs that don't actually get a lot out of the ability (see doom on doomballs).
     
  4. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    As long as there's reasonable access to reasonable counters mind. The real trick is figuring out what's actually "reasonable" vs. what people on each side THINK is "reasonable."

    I do miss my Magnetic Pulse decks though...
     
  5. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    News flash. the purpose of the last revamp was NOT to simplify or balance the game. It was to hit the reset button on powercreep and devalue existing runes in comparison to the new stuff. that means the devs do NOT want themes/decks/factions to be complete and competitive. If we all had complete and competitive decks then there would be no reason to buy more runes. Guys when are you going to get this fundamental truth about the tcg model?

    but please, go on thinking that the devs are trying to make a balanced competitive strategy game but are just bad at it.
     
  6. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    I have a 100 bg's.
    Lots pre-vamp. I mean if I could create new combos no one has eve played I did it, made the bg. My friend goes tanglefoot is bad.
    Ran tanglefoot up reaper blades him to death in one turn.

    Ruugbaal + metamorph = 2 ruugbaals out. When black tempest used to stack.

    Or the rebuke bg's I hated them the most. ( I was new didn't know what he was doing) short answer mend + 3 rebuke champs with the whip of doom (horn of order).

    Or st players using giving all the upgrades the everything.

    When Tortun repeaters attack went off for every single itty bitty space moved.


    Edit: I forgot to state I need a select and delete button for my bg's.
    Cause delete reload kills me.
     
  7. st3ck

    st3ck I need me some PIE!

    Thank you for the feedback everyone, but no one provided me with fun BG ideas.

    I am starting to see some different style combos. One I am currently working on is Crown of Nightbarbs FW/ST. It isn't good yet, but it effectively utilizes wish, chronomancers, and depths of despair to maximize nightbarbs. It just doesn't synergize with much else anymore, its just essentially an expensive combo to combine with cheap meat.

    Are there currently any combo modules that get stronger when interacting with thematic/racial elements of champions? Exile/mercy is probably the best example of this.

    Exile + Mercy was a strong combo, when you added in champions that had rider abilities, it was very strong, when you mixed it with a rider champ that had a conditional perserverance clause, it was insanely strong. What pushed the combo even farther was the ability to control when you got to "pop" the effects of exile mercy.

    Currently, I'm struggling to find any type of combination mechanics that continually build up into more interesting/dynamic things like above. There are still some elements of the FS/UD nora gen engine, but not as much. For those not in the know with regards to what I'm speaking, essentially you would deploy nora barrier units into flame siphon units to generate massive nora. You could maximize it by using the reinforce upgrade on the lightning salaman to get the nora barrier unit back and into play again. The combo got even stronger when you applied the nora barrier FS spell onto a unit with fire volatality to generate nora, and do tons of damage.

    Of the abilities on champs that I am currently seeing, it is alot more of buffing or debuffing of champs and stats, then it is of mechanics. Things like ignorance are fantastic, but there are no other interactions with faithless that can trigger to "combo" it. There are lots of isolated instances of this type of stuff rampant throughout pox right now. Really awesome abilities that are almost in a vacuum that can't compound into more things. Ferren attempt to do this, but again, a bunch of random debuffs with no extreme capitalization to warrant going through the effort of setting it up.

    Anyhow, I'm definitely enjoying looking through all the runes and building BG's again, and appreciate any criticisms of my thought process that led me to these opinions. Suggestions welcome with regards to mechanics awareness and unique interactions, or point me in the right direction.

    Also, to all the AP lock haters, you missed out because there is some science fact behind what I'm about to say. Only people that didn't play AP lock hated it. Fact. Once you played with the BG, it was immense fun to play against due to a better understanding of the intricacy involved in it. Actually, that is probably true of most all BG's.

    Totally blanked on what I was going to type for this sentence, so I'll leave this here to remind myself to edit in the lost thought later.
     
  8. NiGhtMaRiK

    NiGhtMaRiK I need me some PIE!


    Been asking for a better delete function forever.

    If you go watch the first QnA with Gedden you'll see where he said post revamp it would be incredibly useful and that they would look into getting it done before revamp or at launch.

    Since then i've asked for it numerous times. Deaf Ears or Full Plates? Possibly both.
    I really don't think it could be that hard.

    They could give me the code for the rune manager, i can give it to my friend and im sure he could have it done in less than a week.
     
    Leadrz likes this.
  9. Paladin

    Paladin The King of Potatoes

    I'm still pissed about the DK nerf tbh.
     
  10. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Uhm

    nerf?
     
    Bellagion likes this.

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