The Unholy Tomb dilemma: Tempo and Nora Gen

Since there's a constant debate about UT and whether or not it's too strong or not, I would like to share my thoughts about it to hopefully offer some new perspective on it. I've got the 3rd most points in FW in DoW (after SL and SP) at 1341 right now. It's not the most, but I've almost exclusively played it on a pretty decent level so it wasn't wasted effort.

First, let's look at Unholy Tomb. It costs 35 nora and deals 1 loss of life to every enemy champ on the start of your turn and you gain 1 nora per champ affected/loss of life dealt.

I will now make the most overused and misleading statement ever about UT. "It takes 35 procs to pay off, so it takes quite some rounds to be worth it". I hate it when people bring this up, because it attests of their inability to look at the rune outside of the pure paper reality. Let me explain. The reason why I believe UT is still an auto include and auto 'I draw it so I smack it down' rune is because it's game impact includes both nora gen and loss of life. The loss of life aspect is forgotten easily, while it builds up rather hugely. If it pays itself off, you've already dealt 35 loss of life to enemy champs. Even though that's over time and possibly to several champs, it is still a huge number that you should keep in mind.

But let us get to the good stuff, the prime defense of Unholy Tomb: the tempo hit. It takes quite a while, even more so after the change to pay itself back. Yet it always has been an auto include in your FW and FW/x bgs. Here's why I think that is: The tempo hit, especially at 35 nora, is a lot smaller than the actual full 35 nora. You gain 45 nora from your shrine and 12 per font. In the current map pool, this equates to 57 or 69 nora per round. Now factor in UT, for the sake of the argument, we can assume the opponent has 4 to 8 champs out during the midgame depending on the bg and map. So you'd get 61-65 or 73-77 per round. (The values used are purely for the sake of demonstrating my point. Now what does this mean? It means that although you've made an initial investment of 35 nora, you'll be able to put out stronger champs each round or deploy when you were otherwise not able to. If this happens, that UT was already worth it. Because not spending the 35 nora didn't stop you from deploying champs while you're generating nora and dealing loss of life globally. So you buffer the tempo hit and get the UT going.

In general, that little bit of nora every turn shouldn't be regarded as "a free champ at turn X" or "pays off at round Y". It's a constant flow of extra nora per turn that allows you to get more out of your turn than your opponent for the rest of the game.

Now I don't want to advocate nerfs/buffs or comment on it's balance. I want to give you my perspective on why UT is and should be played by everyone who plays FW or FW/x and plays to win. It's a ticking time bomb that both impacts the hp of your opponents champs and your nora in the bank, and it does so from the turn after you deploy it, not from the turn it pays itself off.

 

Disclaimer: I wrote this thread in between league games and it feels very chaotic. I tried cleaning it up a bit but this is how it ended up, sorry for that.

 

I can see that

 

- Best part....lava trap, mead trap, etc All cost 35 Nora...woot.

P.s. The real best part is it only effects enemy champs now....cray

 

I tend to dabble with Chopping Blocks depending on my mood and actually found the Unholy Tomb change to be a buff. It no longer affects your own units, making it great for things like Stitched Dreameater and Maleficia. Outside of Chopping Blocks, it's still a large contributor to damage done throughout a match if played early on. 1 damage doesn't sound like a lot, but when it's used in conjunction with Dark Favor, Tome of Hate, Jabs, Festering Wounds and Bile Zombie attrition, it quickly adds up into something that makes you question actually sending your units in for fear of losing them.

A question that might spark a deeper topic to touch upon: If Unholy Tomb was in a different faction, say... Ironfist, would it have the same powerlevel it does in Forsaken Wastes?

 

Shoulda been SP, whoops. My bad.

 

Even though some players called he change to UT as a nerf, I quite agree with BP - I sense this as a buff. Now it just takes longer for it to be a free deploy, but still, it now is only 70% of the tempo hit it was, and it will pile damage up. If anything, now it is a thoughtless deploy, even more than before.

 

Wow so people are messing up on balance patches? NO WAY MAN!

 

I felt like the point of the change was to stop it from taking over the late-game solo if left un-handled, in a similar vein to the Nora Miner and Flame Siphon changes. Cutting its gen in half certainly did that, although yes, I do think it was a buff to practical usability.

 

Two things: 1) It has less raw impact on nora, 2) its late game potential and build are slower, making the game more manageable for the opponent.

Sure, its fairly "thoughtless" deploy, but any fire and forget ability thats not shoebox is "thoughtless". It is a rune that provides resources, check. Deploy it, check. Done.

The nerf was not to make it more strategic, just lessen its impact and potential to control the game - and for that it got a reduction in cost/tempo hit (vs. just the changes, leaving it in the shoebox).

 

Friendly reminder that this isn't a "it's too good or discuss the change thread".

 

I think the change is immediately relevant to any discussion of Unholy Tomb. The concept is half implementation, and the recent patch sure changed that.

 

people don't factor kill rate into UT effectivenss
UT mainly works best when you have have equal or less number of champion on the field if you make a quick turnaround UT become less effective.

 

Friendly reminder, one would have a better chance at directing the wind than getting interweb forums to follow your desire.

 

Yeah, UT was buffed for the purposes of many BG's. I feel like it's healthier for the game though in that the nora per turn reduces the potential for crazy spammy plays from attrition decks.

 

...And this is a problem why?

 

The change in tempo and payoff chnages some of the feel of FW (and I'm guessing this applies to some other forms of gen as well). The later-game seems to come sooner, with setup and pieces coming together, but their total effect seems smaller. I feel more pressed for deployment choices and tighter on nora compared to old Tomb, but that starts happening at the stage which for the older gen model would be mid-game. It feels good. Rather than straining and straining and straining and then being suddenly able to autopilot into good-practice deploys and straight efficient play, newer Tomb feels more like a little bump, a little stress, and then some different options.

 

cuz mw is the head leader of balances, esp with the factions he plays

 

I'm trying to enjoy the forums and you losers keep mentioning mw.