Poxnora: The Catch 22 Dilemma

your bottom argument is what we call power creep, something magic manages largely with their block system and releasing very weak sets to counter balance the power creep since even weak sets will be viable once the block knocks out the strong ones.

It comes with it's own set of issues and was done a lot in what is known as the corpse era and to be fair I liked corpse era, most don't though, but it focused on buffing rather then nerving.

ultimately pox is a different game then magic, in terms of balance you only need to look at a simple thing like removal. in magic they toss removal everywhere including global removal, counter spells, bounce, champs that kill things etc, while even doing spot damage in poxnora can be significantly broken if the damage is high enough.

magic is a fast paced game where the board state changes fast, quickly and easily, where champs don't matter and they can have strong cards because they are balanced by the fact that they won't be accessible till much later in the game, poxnora on the other hand is a slow methodical game where every champ on the board is literally your presence and ability to effect the game, and every single tile of movement matters, there is no comparison between the importance of the units between the two games.

in the end it's reasonable to balance pox on the macro level the same way as magic, i.e block systems, set rotations, etc, but on a micro level pox needs to do it's own thing as the games are too different to be compared.

 

I wish I had the time and resources to develop such a game.

 

The first point you made is a tough issue indeed. When does a company make the strategic move to cut back on the development on one game to develop another? Game companies have to make that determination all the time. This game appears to be DOG's flagship if not entire fleet.

The other issue I had with pvp play was the turns were too short. All I learned in those games was I couldn't manipulate the controls to do what I wanted to do quickly enough even when I did figure out what I wanted to do. Also why bother trying to place several champions on the board when you don't have time to play them properly. Longer turns in games between lower experience players is not going to take away from the game. It allows those players to have a chance to get the proficiency needed to play the games with quicker turns against players of roughly equal skill level. Being overmatched is OK if you are going to get some reward. At least the game does have 1 training game to get 350gps as a daily reward. If the trainee got an extra minute or two per turn, that would help too.

I built my KF-first deck buy simply playing games against the computer and getting the rewards. I don't have a problem with how fast one can get runes though I would like to see the option to have boxes be focused on a faction or at least be protectorate or wrath. I purchased 2 boxes (1 core, 1 extended) and didn't get one KF rune. Statistically I should have received 2.

 

The games are very different...but they also share a LOT of similarities. The deck is half the size, and coincidentally the deck limit is 2 for most runes(as opposed to 4).

If you took out the land in a magic deck, you would be subtracting 20-26 land from 99% of all decks. end up with a playable card pool of 34-40 cards. I consider that ballpark close.

If in magic you got a free land each turn until you had 5, and mana pools didn't empty, you would get a pretty similar 'mana-to-nora curve' in both games. Pox has less variability because we draw 2 cards each turn, and we frequently have ways to augment that or get extra reveals.

Basic strategy revolves around balancing the number of creatures, the number of spells, and the number of non-spells(equip/relic, versus artifact/enchantments). Normal magic decks run between 4 and 11 creatures, and 4-8 removal spells, with extremes being more(mono red aggro vs control for example). Pox is obviously more creature centric, so we have most BGs running 15 or 16 creatures, 6-8 spells, 3-5 relics, and 3-5 equips. Not gonna compare power/toughness and damage/hp, but I do think there is a relation, and you could boil down our champs into equivalent magic cards if you wanted to and I bet the conversion would make the balance conscious people want to puke....people would be like OMG! Tainted Martyr is a 6/6 wit haste and trample for 4, but it only gets 4 turns then dies...but can be recast from the GY in 4 more turns!? That would be a crazy powerful $50 mythic in magic.

in magic, spells are more efficient, as 1 mana = 3 damage in legacy, or 2 in standard. In pox, the standard is about 45 nora for an AE 3 doing 10 damage, which makes our nukes look about as efficient as Limited format magic removal...4-5 mana to kill 1 thing.

The differences are obviously abound as well, so dont go thinking I am saying the games are -exactly- the same.

All games have power creep...as no game can survive if it remains stagnant. That isn't a real argument. Power creep is -necessary-, but balancing how much happens over any given time is also necessary. Nobody thinks we needed more power creep pre-DoG. It was really bad. Adjusting the rate of power creep is a VERY good forum discussion to have on an ongoing basis. That is the sort of community feedback I am sure the DoGs love to get as they can actually do something with that information. The re-vamp obliterated years worth of power creep, but at the same time made a lot of the standouts essentially just as OP as the pre-vamp OP runes. We are now officially a whole expansion and midterm into content that is 'all DoG content' and how they handle having the reigns can't be blamed on SOE any more. I've spent at least $150 on every expansion since they took over, but I won't play ranked because I think it is still very unbalanced....In contrast, I spend 3-4 times that amount on every set of Magic that comes out, and I play Standard/Modern magic competitively at the local level, but wont play legacy/vintage because like pox it is very ubalanced.

 

It's incredibly difficult to make solid comparisons between MtG and Pox cards as single units, because of the relationships between card advantage, mana, and nora. The 6/6 trample haste for 3B that can get recast highlights that problem, in two ways. First, all cards in Pox can come back, it's a fundamental at incredibly influential part of the game. Second, the actual value of returning that unit in MtG is that you get +~1 card, but in Pox, you're still paying nora for that unit. I think there are a ton more parallels and useful comparisons between MtG and Pox than people talk about (people don't talk about much theory here), but they need to be done carefully. It's not just a matter of scale -- the core mechanics produce different outcomes. Hell, you can draw parallels between MtG and SF4, but just like between any two games, the most important thing is what's fundamentally different.

 

Very much support the OP.

Pox is a tactical miniatures game. Much more akin to Warhammer, Heroscape and the like. Random purchase model like a TCG is the worst aspect of Pox.

Go advertise on Boardgamegeek.

 

I agree with this, I recently joined and I'm already thinking of quitting because everytime I go against someone in match making they have over 1000 ranked wins, I don't stand a chance really. I'm gradually becoming more and more inactive, the only thing I enjoy doing is making decks but then I just get ***** by veterans who have been here for years, quite a shame really the game itself is very fun.

 

Isn't this what happens with most good strategy games? Veterans win vs new players most of the time. Then the new guys learn and become veterans. The good games are playing against similar levels. The best games are playing as a vets vs vets. In fact the best games are probably the ones where you experience emergent strategy whilst still learning.

It's a bad thing to have inexperienced guys win by the introduction of OP runes. Unless crazily intuitively very talented, new guys SHOULD lose for a while. It's a learning curve thing.

I guess we need better match making, but the community is so small, we can't really split it.

 

Most strategy games (that I have played) have consistent new players coming in so you're learning the ropes along side other new players. The same can't be said about PoxNora unfortunately. The community seems to just be made up of veterans and very few newbies.

 

The thing is that people do join pox, but most of them give up rather quickly. Very few stay for long(I could risk guessing 1 out of 10).

 

For the old wargamers out there...Pox is like ASL.

 

You are truly one of the great business minds of our generation

 

,, the naming of runes, starter skins/taunts, custom games, a competitve competent single player campaign intuitive map and all, (perhaps rewards prior mentioned , growing etc). when a new player joins a game and u give them the tools to make it "thiers" , it may cause a bond with a game perhaps makeing new players stay a lil longer...my collection is large because ive been here a long time. ..but if I were new with no cards...I prolly wouldn't stay either...
even tho mtg doesn't have a campaign mode it does offer many game modes (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, different deck parameters,and even odd number players, new player lobbies and all) .what do I get when u join pox? either a really unchalleging dumb ai, or ruthless and experienced opponents that beat u so fast ,cant even have a chance to learn.. why would one stay with so many options out there? they wont..
the people who've been here a while and remain have probably invested lots of cards and have a personal love of pox (unfortunately im one) arent goin anywhere amytime soon. this game needs to go in a direction to atteact new players...dont worry the vets aint goin anywhere. there too vested some ads and a shiny new ui would be a good start..

 

I thought it was pox paying poxbox so they wouldn't have to open a single rune store. that way you can be a p2w game while claiming youre not.

 

I guess you could try to match up against some one who has about the same level as you when ***they*** are looking for a game. Try to link up with them before a level 99 player does. In the one non-training game I played I entered the game against someone who was about 10 levels above me if I recall. He may have out-played me by a little bit, but the time constraints hurt me more.

Also fortunately the game has quite a few good, playable single player campaigns you don't need some magical combination of cards to win. I haven't played or bought any of the campaigns that require purchase so I can't comment on those. Also fortunately the AI is competent to give a new to intermediate player a good game. For experienced to upper echelon players it probably isn't, but that's pretty standard for any game (except chess).

That does bring up another point; every campaign should be winnable by every faction without using a specific magical combination of cards.

 

I thought that ALL the cards were magical, in a way...

 

Yes, this is THE main problem, imo. I assume most ppl realize they'll have a learning curve to climb when they are new. But it really helps if you can compare notes with other newbies and play against them, to see if you're making any progress or have some talent.

 

I think people compare pox to the giant games (LoL, hearthstone) and then complain about stuff like this - which is a little unfair.

You never see people comparing it to smaller games.

 

It's much more like a physical board game community.

 

Krosmaster says hi. And probably does have a much bigger player base. And is almost as P2W as it can get, while being a pack buying game...