Yeah that's essentially how I feel about flight unless it's proliferated throughout my bg and I can actively make use of it in my strategy. And for the purposes of that bg it's just essentially more expensive flight
So 8 Nora less and it effectively loses 2 damage on the bomb and cannot have its damage output increased by anything other than amplification.
Gains 2 damage; the static AoEs do 12, his bombs do 80% of 12 currently. The CDs would wreck him though.
Corrosive Grenade is what would replace Acid Bomb, wouldn't it? I realize there isn't a lightning bomb equivalent with AoE2 and fixed damage, so that would have to be lightning skewer, which as you say has 12 damage.
Why replace it? It will still be Acid Bomb, just make it flat dmg instead of %. Have you seen Throwing axe on a 6dmg unit? Cone abilities are more wide spread, sandbagging some units, and disbalancing others, that's the reason of this thread.
kind of like blindfire on Elven Prodigy is a fine ability...it actually has a damage stat and a very good range....But blindfire on the original revamp of Bowmage was ridiculously terribad, cuz it had no damage and a terrible range that made the 15 nora ability a huge sandbag. The exact same goes for Hail of Arrows...it deals decent damage for prodigy, but basically can not be damage stacked because it can't be equipped and KF has no physical damage multiplying abilities. Hail of arrows on Archer commander is likewise useless. 6 nora for an AE 2 that does 4 damage. 8 nora for 5 damage, or 10 nora for 6 damage. If you stack Banner, Battlemaster, and Commander on him that turns into 6 8 10....a 10 damage ae for 10 nora is actually pretty efficient! But if KF had amplify physical or could cause vulnerability physical, you can bet droves of people would QQ that it had to be nerfed immediately. But Frost cone gets put on a champs with 14 base damage and figure in banner and a equip bonus and amplify and suddenly that 14 is dealing 30. Poison and fire and disease are also all good right now for the exact same reasons.... Why does the nora cost of the ability remain static while the -base- damage the abilities do is not?
Wouldn't changing all the bombs/cones to do a set amount just change the problem to them being to good on low damage units? Moga chef would get a massive increase in damage for example. A quick look at bomb/cone champs shows most have around 10-12 damage which puts bombs at roughly 8-10 damage. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, ST has 4 frost cone champs and one with charged frost cone but I'm guessing the only one people have a real problem with is the arcanis ( maybe hoarfrost dragon is geting some massive stat stacking in fw? ) this makes me think the problem might be the champ and/or stat stacking and not the ability. PS elven prodigy has a rather massive manual modifier to make it work in the current pricing system, like a 30+ nora discount. So might not be the best champ to bring up in threads dealing with costing and balance.
Hum... Ser your point. Really makes sense. But if cones becomes flat numbers, Moga Chef (as example) can have only the 1st LVL of the ability. Maybe this will fix. Yes, will take time to rework a lot of champ, but will help a lot (I guess).
My thinking was that they would be replaced with the abilities that are on champs that actually get played; specifically terraformer's kit because that would create the most direct comparison with a champ in the meta.
I think you didn't seee the irony, but ok. I understand your point Dr, but they are different abilties, with different purpose, and Cone/Bomb is more widespread. Having an unbalance ability like this in lots of champ, only make it harder to balance the game. Some of them are shoebox by this ability (by no having dmg) while others are overpowered (by having absurd stats buffing).
I think Bombs are good right now because of the map selection and tendencies of upper-level BG construction. People like Regal Presence, but that also requires all the units to sit in a sardine tin together. Additionally, the current pool has more choke points or contained fights, as opposed to vast tracts of land like in the days of old. With the increased value of low-cost units for tempo, value, and various boost synergies, maps are naturally more rich in targets. I don't think bombs and breaths need any major changes right now -- they're just strong in the current environment because of their interaction with numerous other independent factors.
Your assertion is that bombs as an ability should be static damage because they're too strong on some champs but too weak on others (sandbagging them). You can make that assertion about almost every single ability in the entire game. Attack: poison is a lot better than attack: psychic on a champ with choking aura, despite both abilities costing the same. A champ with boost and improve range is going to be a lot better if it's a backline support unit rather than a melee beater; despite giving the same pricetag to both units. Arrow throw is a lot better on higher damage units than it is on lower damage units. I could go on for pages of examples, showing you that regardless of how proliferated bombs are, they aren't going to outweigh every other ability in the game that shares the same problem. You fail to realize that what you're actually arguing against is the existence of a formula that assigns costs to abilities in a vacuum, and that you've somehow landed on bombs as your scapegoat because they're widespread. This is why manual cost modifiers exist; to account for the fact that the game doesn't take place in a vacuum. You can see what happens when manual modifiers are not correctly assigned to account for overly streamlined champs (terraformer). You asserted that bombs on low damage champs are sandbagging them, hurting their viability. I showed you an example with lodestone armory of throw axe being a useless sandbag, thus hurting it's viability; thereby showing you that this isn't unique to bombs. You retorted by saying that champion doesn't get run, which was exactly my point. That's the irony you missed.
