Buff trolls.

Cause you nerfed them.

 

Sok theres too many ways to deal dmg without basic attacks now a days. Everything has cones and bombs and breaths and auras and power attacks and berserk attacks so giving all trolls such low dmg to accomodate for defiance dmg just doesnt do it no more. Shave 2 nora off defiance so trolls arent unrunnable cuz of nora cost :/ grintmaw shaman 86 nora with lethargic, flamehurler is as useless as the day it was shat out and magnificent is boring as Bane Shift and lost rock slide

 

its saddens me to see an intresting and fun bg have a 0 percent player rate , gritmaws to me seems like they have very little ruins and has no variety or choice wen making the bg

 

#runes

 

BUFF IS CUZ DWARFS ARE OP, OTHER THEMES NEED TO CATCH UP!

 

flamehurlers text speaks of him being especially strong against equipped units so maybe give him hunter equipped? even burn on the second line would ake him sooo much more runnable. Shaman can do with with losing either mass heal or heal champion maybe moving cleanse to the first line, or switching starshine for hex 2 to shave the cost a bit.

 

Earthgod Sigil would likely see play.

 

whoa!! that be nice!! didnt know range contributed to cost 0.0 he barely sees any battle so that would def fix him

 

the range change with be nice

 

Thread started kinda trolly, even for a troll thread about trolls... but here goes:

I'll try to create links to the champions and lesser known abilities, but if I lose patience, I'm sorry.

The theme was in a good spot with the old Str of Body build on Bouncer and Magnificent countering off dmg. When it was leaked that Magnificent would be 2x2 I was really hoping that Nexus Aura would come to the theme via this champion, when I looked at it pre-release, I even advised it, but it didn't happen. I still think that Nexus Aura is the [current] catalyst to any good phalanx. Scroll down to Gravitone for my advice on where to put it, but if the theme could gain that and a couple of changes, I think it would do well. I'd also recommend Rock Defiance going to 4 nora, from 5 just to boost the themes efficiency a tiny bit.

Lets look at the roster sorted by roll: Melee (tank or non-tank), Mid-Ranged (4 or less max dmg) and Ranged (non support) and Support. Secondly, the all-melee B-Roster, the other champs with "Rock Defiance" as an ability. Lastly, non champ runes.


Melee: Bouncer, Maginificent, Marsh Troll
Mid-Ranged: Gravitone, Singer, Rockslinger
Ranged: Flamehurler
Support: Shaman

B Roster: Earthmover, Earth Golem, Earth Elemental, Groble, Rockforger and Rockling. <All Melee

Spells: Grintmaw Hymn,

Equipment: Stonearm Sash,

So it looks like the theme is melee heavy with real no anti-ranged in a ranged-dominated game. I'd say lack of ranged is (and has always been) the fundamental flaw with the status of this theme. I would also add other things to that list, such as:

• Lack of abilities that support the intended play style.
• Lack of cohesion between B-roster and Grintmaw Hymn.
• Lack of staying power/recovery.
• Lack of grunt/runt style runes (such as Rockling).
• No real threat to enemy.

That is the basis of the problems with the deck as I see it. It's alot of words but it's really a bunch of very fixable stuff.

Champions:
Bouncer: Fine.

Maginficent: This champion needs both Mirrored and Crushing Charge (-2 nora for this ability, from 10 to 8, should not be priced the same as teleport 2), speed 6 as base.

• Upgrade Line 1: -Stone Bomb2, + Stone Barrage
• Upgrade Line 2: Rock Front, Shroud, Reflection Rank 2

His role now becomes centerpoint psuedo-range hate. You can go with reflection2 and combined with mirrored he'd be great vs most ranged champions, or shroud, and he can provide that same utility to other champions beside himself. Rockfront stays for someday if there is a rock-based terrain theme, he can join that as well.

Marsh Troll: Well he used to be a decent control champ, I'd probably reinstate that status.

• Upgrade Line 1: Leave it, he'll need regen to stay alive.
• Upgrade Line 2: Bind, Antagonize, Pummel 1 (Bind was removed from game? I think that's dumb, put it back in, it was cheaper than assault but capped at 10 dmg)

Now, at this point, someone from Mid-range needs to make their way to ranged. I personally like Rock Slinger for it. The idea of a powercharged half dead slinger is nice but it rarely works out in competitive games. He'll get softened to 40 dmg then taken out in a turn if not healed. It's even possible to bring him into the ranged line-up while at the same time ensuring he stays out of meta for being range 6.

Rockslinger: -Absorb base, + Logistics: Ranged base. -1 minimum range(range to 3-4 from 2-4), -1dmg base: Can you confirm how much of a discount that would be? I need at least -5 nora

• Upgrade Line 1: Multiattack 1, Enrage 1, Enrage 2
• Upgrade Line 2: Rend 1, Cripple, Bash

Gravitone: NEXUS AURA PL0X. So, this champions name makes me think more pull than push, he's gravity-like. So a little retooling here:
First, I think that Kenetic Impulse ends up being kinda weird. You give him access to +6 dmg, but you give him an unplayable damage base for a combat champ basically having that ability move you towards and a little past acceptable dmg (to 12), and you charge him 8 nora for that. WUT? I'd reduce that to 1 dmg per rank and make the ability cost 3 nora (plus 2 dmg costs 3 nora, plus 3 would cost 4 or 5). I'd then increase his base damage to 8. Hopefully that either doesnt change his cost or makes him cheaper but it makes him able to fight at range 1 and 2 a bit better.

• Base: Kenetic Impulse adjustment, + Nexus Aura
  
• Upgrade Line 1: Fascinate, Dragging Attack
  
• Upgrade Line 2: Stays the same

Singer: This is a pretty decent champ. It's a tad pricey for my liking, but anything I'd change here would be preference and not really theme-enhancing.

Flamehurler: I said this seconds after he went live, that upgrade line 2 is a complete sandbag, its so Firking awful it makes me rage. Nora induction is pretty huge on a dmg dealer, it needs to go to -8.

• Base: Nora Induction to -8 nora from -6 nora.
• Upgrade Line 1: Same
• Upgrade Line 2: Add Burn 1

Shaman: Wut the wut on this guys cost, brobros? Obviously, he needs to go from 2-5 to 4-5 to reduce that cost by like, a billion. If it reduces it enough, think on Scour 1 base. Needs a good debuff in there, a reason to get into combat.

• Upgrade Line 1: Debilitate, Heal Mass 2, Heal Mass 3
• Upgrade Line 2: Same

Non champion Runes:

Mostly these runes just need to make sure they include the "B-roster" as well if you want the B-roster to be serious contenders in the deck. Stonearm Sash, check. Hymn, not check.

Something needs to be added here. I really like their connection to the earth and for that reason I'd like to suggest that Earthgod Sigil and Earthquake be reworked in their favor a bit:

Earthgod Sigil: Same Description, then add: , if equiped to a Troll, it gains Flame Thrower and you are refunded 10 nora.

Earthquake: Same Descripton but add Trolls to the immunity clause: Trolls effected by this spell gain 1 AP and 2 dmg for 1 turn.

 

Just FYI I played them last cycle and they're much, much better than people are giving them credit for. I would have a lot more confidence queueing with trolls right now than with something like draksar

Only things that need to be changed: Magnificent and flamehurler are terrible. Marsh troll is underwhelming. I'm also down with Baskit's suggestion on shaman's range, that 2-5 has to be a huge sandbag.

 

I don't think they are hugely underpowered, which is evident in my suggestions, I didn't really increase power outside of the increase of range on one champion - and reduced power in a few other places. The problem is mainly that you have to bring some other ranged champion and the playstyle just ends up being a little boring, because you don't have the tools to effectively play them as they were designed.

So in reply to "much better than people are giving them credit for" I think you need to clarify better. If "better" means power standings, they are fine really in their ability to do damage due to racial. But if you think "better" means they are fine as a theme and play well as a cohesive unit, then I'd have to disagree.

TL;DR Don't increase power, increase synergy.

 

I agree with and like most of this. Including the '-2 nora on Crushing Charge' thing (in my case, I have to pay +2 nora on Basilisk Templar if I want to take that over Magic Immunity or Quest: Kill Enemy, which is something I find strange because both of those are generally accepted as better upgrades).

I also love the Earthgod Sigil suggestion. I was a bit concerned about how cheap it'd be, but since equiping it on yourself grants the drawbacks as well...


The Gravitone U1 suggestion is something I found weird. It makes the opposing champions sort of... move back and forth relative to this champion. So I'm not sure what the goal of it is.

 

Be honest, you enjoy the silly one-liners.