Worms Ground Zero

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Beefinator

    Beefinator The King of Potatoes

    First off, thanks for the detailed reply, that was great.

    I will run 2x BZ and see how it goes. It's just so tempting to drop a putrid creeper for 81 nora instead of the 2x BZ for 84 nora, unless they have positioned their champs in such a way that you can get 2 or 3 of them killed. We'll see how it goes.

    I like life siphon on the Twilight Creeper because he seems to be an easy target and it keeps him going for a turn or two more. I've seen binding chains do a lot of damage before but I'd rather protect my other worms that do a lot more damage.

    With Dusk Creeper, I really haven't gotten much use out of shroud, but I haven't played him much. I tend to just not deploy him now. His range sucks and he's squishy. I tend to not need the improved range. It's nice, but not necessary. I don't keep him close to my carrionlings on the front line usually either because of the disease aura, I just run the worms down their throat.

    Agreed that detection on blinking creeper is pointless. Eye of Serkan has it on base, so you really need to get one. He's majorly useful.

    Bloodworm sounds so great in theory, I agree. That's a great ability list for sure, but he's an easy target in this BG. He's way too easy to kill in one turn. Putrid Creeper is so tanky, so hard for most people to deal with, there's no reason you'd ever deploy Bloodworm over Putrid.
     
  2. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Id love to play worms again but all the exos except bloodworm are hard to find or have gone up a lot in price,as soon as the market stabilises i will take worms to ranked again.
     
  3. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Mindthief creeper needs a change in order to be usable in my opinion.

    My suggestion:

    Base:
    Necrosis
    Brain Eater
    Attack Phsycic

    U1: Paralyze, Shadowspawn, Invigorate 2
    U2: Initiative 1, Initiative 2, Reinforce
     
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  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Reinforce would be an incredibly cool mechanic to have in worms. Seems like a neat redesign. Currently, he's held back hard by paying for 8 points of damage he has no innate way of using, and doesn't even have a way to generate threat outside of Adaptation. Those two things combined -- Adaptation and the 8 DMG -- cost him 24 nora. That's over a third of his cost. Reflection works poorly with a unit that can't threaten opposing melee. I think he's almost sort of runnable right now because of the instant Paralyze, but he really lacks power after that.
     
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  5. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    For mindthief creeper,my suggestion is:
    Damage to 0
    Adaptation removed
    Reflection upgrade line replaced with phsyic ping upgrade line.
     
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  6. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Well, he probably isn't runnable right now at the very least.

    What other input do people have about worms right now, without considering prospective changes? Really curious what others are running for their non-champ set -- I feel like that area in particular has a ton of flex room.
     
  7. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I'll post my by later tonight after the fair.
     
  8. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

  9. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

  10. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    I've been hoping for interactions where I can cast touch of death on putrid creeper and equip pestilence for a surprise 18 dmg at end of turn (more if 2 or more champs under 65 nora are around the guy).
    Have yet to pull that off though I have used touch of death on him to great effect.

    Bloodworm I run surge worm and multiattack currently.

    I took blinking creeper out... she hasn't been pulling her weight and seems to work more in a dread build then actual worms.
    may need her upgrade kit adjusted for worm build.

    Vengeful was nice when carrionling was sub 30 nora but now it doesn't have anything decent to proc it.

    Carrionling should really go to 25 so it can be used as a fodder champ for Blinking or a slight snack for putrid.
    30 is iffy as broken bones is much better.
     
  11. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    I managed to get all the exo goodies.This is my bg:
    worms.JPG

    I am still testing out various champions,upgrades and spells to see what works best,so there will probably be lot of changes to optimize the bg but for now its this.

    New version:
    worm.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  12. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Can someone record a match or write some guidelines?I cant win one match with new necrosis/worms.
     
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  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yeah, I'll record a couple once I get time this weekend, and maybe update the OP with playstyle comments. It's a bit weird -- people I've talked to say they have no idea how you're supposed to be worms in a theoretical sense, while other people trying out worms say it's difficult to understand how to play them in the first place. Cool theme!
     
  14. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Worms used to be agressive and controlling,the new necrosis seems far better for defensive playstyle.However my stuff gets destroyed by range and powerturns as soon as i go on defensive and build up.
     
  15. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Their mix between aggression and defense feels different from most other themes now, that's for sure, and they are indeed especially vulnerable to powerturns. I think the biggest part of building up with Worms is staying conscious of your SDZ, so that you can both remain inside of it and also use it as a line to threaten with Bile Zombies.
     
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Ok, I'll try to make a video or a more involved post about it, but for now, here are my quick notes about playing worms:



    get your triggers, damn it!
    -worm lord
    --positioning
    -- attack order
    -- rules (who gets what when?)
    - retreat to the zone
    --consume/repurp
    --threaten from a distance
    -font safety
    rushing
    -know your tempo and reach
    -be ready to back off
    -get kills, get triggers, get paid
    handling a rush
    -lean into deployment priorities
    -use martyr more than BZ, unless good chances
    handling a standoff
    -ultra-conservative
    -remember that SDZ is a natural threat because of BZ
    --look for chances to BZ
    --only use 1 for the blind unless multiple kills
    -use relics and spells to put on more pressure
    --don't actually have big build threats, *need* pressure
    --be ready to go offensive to return to low-econ neutral
    deployment priorities
    -bnb - beefy/cheap melee (rot, fiend, BB, putrid, colos)
    -putrid - ye
    -other lords - colossus > blinky
    -high-power answers - doom, ed, BCS etc
    -value - tomb, BZ, martyr
    -everything else
    tempo plays in early game
    -count nora and tiles
     
  17. Beefinator

    Beefinator The King of Potatoes

    I keep seeing worm BG's with zero ranged champs in them. I can't play that way at all. I have to have a blinking creeper or eye of serkan out. I know a lot of people can't get those runes, but I think it is worth running something without necrosis to get some ranged protection in there. Dusk creeper doesn't really count for much. Shroud is nice, but he's so easy to kill it seems pointless, and his range is really short anyway. I think putting a couple of cullers or something like that in there is well worth it.
     
  18. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    New improved defensive version:
    defense.JPG
     
  19. DukeofDunks

    DukeofDunks I need me some PIE!

    Are you guys actually consistently getting use out of both the colossus?
     
  20. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I am, at least. Maybe two times in legit games, I've accidentally deployed the second while the first was still out, and poppped them both. In more strained circumstances, the second one usually comes out when the first is still ~4 turns on CD. He's just a great deploy.
     

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