I wish mw24 would share how he really feels about Turkey, instead of being so diplomatic. Ragic is being a bit naughty. Santa is watching. Geressen be tasting his own medicine. Karma. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nessmen-arrested-in-wake-of-downed-plane.html
Also mostly incorrect in regards to NATO/Turkey. They also have the 2nd largest military in NATO and Russia is extremely green in terms of fighting actual Nation States, specifically outside of its immediate vicinity. Their deployment to Syria is the first such deployment in decades. Russia trying to maintain a war on 3 fronts would be highly improbable and would greatly impede their current goals as they are currently understood. Anyway a lot of good talk in this threat, fun to read. Thanks!
you must not be from the states, lol. I dont know the context of what happened but it seems like turkey messed up pretty bad and made terrible decision. Leaders arent supposed to mess up that bad like turkey's did. Do they vote for their leaders in turkey?... in america we have a democracy, nobody here wants to go to war to fight for turkey because they decided to shoot down a russian jet and kill its pilot. we had a cold war with russia for decades and as far as I know we never did anything as stupid as this.
You should put more focus on your military spending instead of demanding/relying that we pay for it for you... then you could stop those bike thiefs and those blasted Dutch biker gangs!
it means your probably bias and your opinion on the subject heavily influenced by the millitary. good thing the millitary doesnt choose when we go to war or we would be in like 20. the millitary industrial complex is real. and alot of senior millitary make money off of wars and equipment used in wars. this is why the president and congress decide when the country goes to war. going to war against russia and risking harm to this country because turkey couldnt control itself doesnt seem to be in the best interest of the united states.
No you said I wasn't American...now I'm biased because I work in the field you are speculating on and have to know about NATO as I work with them. Yes, the people who fight, die, and come home physically and emotionally damaged are clearly the ones who advocate for war..... Not the politicians or Government bodies/special interest groups... Your credibility is shot. p.s. Go back and read my post, not once did I advocate war, only laughed at your statement about the intricacies of NATO and Turkey in general. Which you are frankly ignorant on.
Geressen should arrive shortly, to defend his homeboy. On Topic: http://news.yahoo.com/us-knew-flight-path-plane-downed-turkey-putin-202631534.html War of words continues. What, if anything, will Vlad do next?
Well, you have democracy, yet it didn't stop USA from war with Iraq - it is a widely known fact, that this intervention was based on false evidence and caused nothing except mess. If USA never did anything as stupid as this? Well, Vietnam says hello.
you are making stupid comparisons. vietnam and iraq are 3rd world countries. the united states took Baghdad in like a week and killed like 20 north Vietnamese for every american that died. how the heck are you comparing russia to these countries? your comparison is silly.
the millitary doesnt make the decision on whether or not to go to war so no you dont work in the field I am speculating on, that would be the government. the special interest groups that advocate for war are often times directly linked to people in the millitary or millitary veterans who often times run for office in the republican party.(the party that always wants to go to war and buy more millitary equip to to fund the millitary industrial complex) john mccain cant even raise his arms all the way up as a result of being tortured by the northern Vietnamese after being captured, yet he is one of the most hawkish members of congress out there and never saw a war he didn't want to be apart of. Alot of millitary types seem to think the same way. It seems most members of the millitary are easily influenced by the ideologies and opinions of their superiors(who benefit from war and funding put into the milliary and its equipment) and that most people who join the millitary in the first place are already pretty hawkish and much more right wing than the general population.
I'm not really comparing them to Russia, rather I do to show you, that apart from cold war America did make really stupid mistakes. Baghdad was taken in a week, yet how many years took for USA to leave Iraq? Vietnam lost 20 times more soldiers than USA, as you say, yet it was USA who was stuck in a war, that couldn't be arbitrarily won. USA involvement in Middle East led to destabilization of the whole region to the point, that it escalates on the whole continent and leads to the conflicts in the whole world. USA supporting anti-Assad troops and Russia supporting Assad, great migration wave and chaos resulting from the fundamentalists taking control over the countries "freed" by Americans. The constant clash of interests between the global powers leads to the escalation of tension. While I do not think, that Russia and USA would enter a direct conflict,yet certain tensions would be tremendous for our future. European Union is already paying for its involvement in the Middle East with the immigrants laying siege to the borders and the wave of anti-Muslim sentiments(leading to the extreme right wing parties getting more support) Currently, USA is involved in an economic power struggle with China, Daesh and Middle East tensions simply put it in the background. The domino effect of the Middle East conflict can be unpredictable in the long term. Even not for me, but I'm not sure if not for my daughter.
those were all much different than killing a russian though. none of those countries posed a threat to the world or to the united states. Russia does and could probably easily destroy the country of turkey if they fought a war against them. Pretty sure 80%-90% of americans wouldnt want to be involved if turkey provoked russia into taking millitary action against them. If turkey had actually been attacked first it would be different but in this situation turkey would be screwed if things escalated in that way.( they wont escalate any further tho but turkey is going to be looked at in a different way because of how horrible the decision they made was. Russia is not iraq or vietnam... Leaders arent supposed to do stupid **** like this, who the **** did the turkish people elect as their leader?...)
I do agree with you with certain points, i quote this small thing and I will rephrase it. Russia is not Iraq, however Turkey can be Iraq or Vietnam for Russia - kind of war that cannot be won, consumes more and more resources and generates tension.
the united states didnt achieve their goals in vietnam or iraq but if you look at what happened to the vietnamese and iraqi people in those wars, the loses they took were extreme in terms of loss of life and destruction to their countries. Wars between nations like turkey and russia dont start easily so there will not be an esclation but at the same time modern civilized nations arent supposed to take actions like what turkey did and this is probably going to affect them and the entire nato negatively. Also if a country like turkey actually went to war against a country like russia it would be much different than vietnam and iraq. In a war like that russia would use much more of its resources compared to what america used against iraq and vietnam(because these were 3rd world nations and america was just fighting to prop up a foreign government and to gain oil) there hasnt been a war between 2 powerful countries like turkey and russia as far as i know since world war 2. there probably wont be any time soon either because both sides would have way too much to lose and because all developed nations are now connected in the global economy.
Fully agreed. As far as I recall, the only conflicts of that scale in a modern world, were Falklands conflict and Balkan conflict. Note, that I do not use the term war for those.
Actually it is not a stupid comparison. His comparison is Iraq = Vietnam which is a fairly heavily supported and accepted point. He did not say Russia = Iraq/vietnam in his post. Also Military industrial complex references the the influence over the government by the manufacturing (I.E. Weapons Manufacturers, I called it special interest groups). The Government at the end of the day is the one who sends people to war based on multiple factors, not the least of which is net gain. You would be surprised that it was much less the Military brass that made money of the wars and more so CEOs and special groups with in the Govt. Anyway, hes pretty spot on on his comparison. P.s. Russia would/is falling victim to the same issues the US did if it tried to attack Turkey and for argument sake the rest of NATO did not rally. That is also grossly simplifying the abilities of the Turkish who are no way shape or form anything like either Iraq or Vietnam. They are much more advanced and capable. This is again with out talking about the current Syrian conflict or the Ukrainian ones, both of which Russia is heavily involved in.
