Murky Depths BG

Discussion in 'Forglar Swamp' started by Sarashu, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. Sarashu

    Sarashu The King of Potatoes

    @GabrielQ

    First off, my goal in this game is to create an expression of my identity, to gain satisfaction and personal growth. This may sound wishy-washy to some, but for instance a part of my identity is 'shinobi', aka 'ninja', that is, I turn to deception and stealth as a means of getting things done; it is most natural to me. And I know it most likely won't be the most competitive bg, but I hope it will be at least half decent.

    I recently realized there was a card with a sort of effect I've already been drawn to in other games (like Akali's Twilight Shroud in LoL): Murky Depths. Persistent stealth that's effective against ranged attacks and targeted abilities, and a slowing effect against melee. I believe this also goes hand in hand with other tactics I value: duality, and bypassing defenses to quickly strike at the 'core'. In this game, that would be stealth champs making for the enemy shrine. I thought it went hand in hand because I think using Murky Depths and much water terrain could let me hold back a larger force while I send one or more units elsewhere.

    I've picked out several champs I think would help the most with this strategy, but it's definitely wise to seek experienced opinions before investing in it. Here's the core champs. (Spells and relics will be mostly 'staples', plus Murky Depths of course.)

    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/CgPCikC8NC5qCyG

    First is the creation of water terrain. A lot, to spread out a bit and minimize AoE. Tide Master and Tortun Favored. They both have High Tide and Tidal Wave, and very conveniently a source of AoE healing as well. They're also ranged, which is preferable here.

    Next a frontliner. Death Lily. This is a pretty static strategy, so Take Root is not so bad. It also is ranged, and Ensnares on attack, so it doesn't necessarily have to stay visible, but it has enough defense to be a good first thing for enemies to bump into and destealth.

    And then a support, Augur of the Deep. Its knockback effects help kite melees and make the most of the slowing terrain, and it has decent (ranged) damage as well.

    And then the Shrine striker. Firk Infiltrator. This has the highest range of any FS unit with Stealth, which saves it wasting AP closing the distance on the shrine after being destealthed, and also lets it fall back easier. Also, just as important is the Shielded ability, so it can't be easily dealt with with a single spell remotely. My friend tells me this card is seen as generally poor, so I'd like to know if that would be the case here or not, before I get too invested. Oh, and then there's the upcoming rework as well, but I'd still like to get some opinions on this.

    So that's basically it. Some other champs I'm interested in are Firk Mindbreaker/Mirefolk Stalker for some additional pseudo-ranged damage (i.e. hit-and-run), and Salaman Trapper for another potential shrine striker as well as font contester, plus generally running around and having fun with traps. More ranged FS champs might also be good. The only equips that seemed to add anything were Smooth Stone and Scimitar of the Deep. I'm open to the possibility of a split, but I'm a bit dubious.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  2. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    The rune murky depths isn't good because filling the map with water is expensive, and the champions whose efficiency is linked to water (aquatic and semi aquatic champions) are in-your-face oriented (check pirahnid tempest), and also because detection is widespread, your main tactic wouldn't be as effective.
    But if you like shadows and deception, I have the bg just for you:

    http://poxbase.com/#!/deck/CgPC59ctC8OcjYCtFCgOCjUcoHC5qs1sdsmS46S5BrNrWR2ae1be2w

    Concealer will bring you all the stealth you want with nigthfall and cloak (if you choose that upgrade), salaman ninja is a better version of firk infiltrator, salaman hunter is a stealthy marksman, boghopper elites are surprising with initiative 2 and slick and buzz is a tricky guy.
    The best thing about this bg is the possibility to do big amount of damage suddenly, from the cover of shadows, augur can be used to push people through traps and poisonous fumes, a combination of declare target and horn of order will make hunter double taps easy, you can combine mark on darkmarsh concealer with a stealth gank or using pygmy hippo stampede, darkmarsh helm will give you precision and double damage on any champion, and you can setup baits with poison traps to deceive your opponent.
    To rush the shrine, you have the tortun land cannons, a stealthed unit like ninja can drop two near your opponent's shrine and then attack himself and this combo will easily do more than 50 damage in two turns if your opponent doesn't react.

    If you don't like this bg and you want to keep with the murky depths idea, let me know and I'll help you to flesh that idea.
     
  3. Gaiaix555

    Gaiaix555 Member

  4. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    You play Akali over Zed, the MASTER OF SHADOWS? Seems like he would fit your "identity" better...........
     
  5. Gaiaix555

    Gaiaix555 Member

    Master of Shadows or not, Zed has no stealth option, so he isn't so much a ninja as an assassin.
     
  6. Sarashu

    Sarashu The King of Potatoes

    @GabrielQ I don't want a gimped BG. Thanks for the suggestion, that might be my best choice in this game. I'd like to focus more on the misdirection than the sneak attacks, but I think all the stealth will facilitate that regardless. Baiting with traps intrigues me, and maybe I could go as far as to sacrifice a champion for the sake of misdirection. Misdirection often comes at the cost of strategic efficiency.

    @Gaiaix555 Thanks for the effort, but I accept it's not a sound strategy in this game.

    @JazzMan1221 I guess Zed's shadows bring more juking potential, but assassins aren't all that ninja-y in the first place. I like Akali's Shroud, but I don't really play her. The most deception I've found in League is Zac with his low-hp healing and GA passive. It's also nice that he spends half the game striking from the shroud of war, and can initiate without being seen. But I don't get to play much League, it tends to trigger my anxiety.

    @Gaiaix555 Yeah... if you want to see ninjas, FFXI got it right. It's not really a common archetype... I guess it's not supposed to be a well known methodology.

    I actually had already invested somewhat in ST, specifically Ferrens and Kas, as well as some hefty spells (Healing Hand and Swap). I suppose it's not likely that the amphibeous and arctic would mix well, but the possibility's there. It would be awesome if I could use Ferren Ninja's shadows. Also, Kas Master is much cheaper than Augur.
     
  7. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    If your interested in combining faction stealth abilities why dont u split with UD the shadow faction? With FS/UD you would have access to the spell Shadow which globally stealths everything. Also Smoke cloud spell which shadow spawns your next 3 deploys. Cloak of Long knives grants shadow strike/shadowshift to ranger/rogue. Shadow master 62 nora has surge shadows. Salaman race has good synergy with UD stealth champions, equips, and spells. I guess you could do some water stealth fs/ud thing with mirefolk stalkers, murky depths and some other stuff. To note the UD Murk demon is a stealth theme enabler bringing the abilities mirk, and weaken spells to the table.
     
  8. Sarashu

    Sarashu The King of Potatoes

    @profhulk Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't looked much into other factions. I guess I feel most comfortable with the froggy dudes and fuzzy ferrets, and I shy away from evil elves and demons! But that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider using them.

    But I thought about it, and realized in a one-on-one situation, striking power is important to me. I want to prepare for a singular moment to all-in a key spot, reducing the advantage the opponent could gain from it. (Which is very assassin-like, but I also intend to precurse it with misdirection if possible, that's just my way). The deck GabrielQ posted has a lot of single-turn burst, especially with the hippos and cannons. So it's very FS based; and Darkmarsh Concealer is probably enough supportive stealth. Anyway, I'm noting all those UD cards, but I think the deck is good as a single faction, most likely.
     
  9. AmmonReros

    AmmonReros I need me some PIE!

    Just because I like it I would suggest taking a look at Slipwater and more importantly Circadian Chronologist.
    They both allow for extra AP across the map and especially the latter can be used to get some quick hits on the shrine if water is nearby. But I'd assume that is the case. With his Speed 8 and eventually "waiting" one turn you can deep dive, invigorate (2) and hit the shrine. Costs 4+2+3=9 ap. If you had 11/12 you could even use another ability as well.
     
  10. only

    only Active Member

    I got your idea by stealth things, but do you really want to go for shrine? I mean if you take away that idea, you could end up with some sup bar deck, but still "doable". I have alread seen something similar by low(er) rank player and it had some interesting ideas. well, I suppose anything inefficient could be considered "interesting" in its own way, but that's another talk.
     
  11. Sarashu

    Sarashu The King of Potatoes

    I feel like it would be hard to get water over there. I think I'd have to combine the water source (without High Tide) with Darkmarsh Concealer, and then add Chronologist to the combo... and the water would probably be desired at the main battle as well. And if I have access to most of my runes, I find there's plenty to occupy my nora between the Cannons and Hyppos. Also I'm having trouble relying on stealth, as has been said, most decks have some detection. I'm looking more into Deception.


    Are you saying that sending one or two units away from the main battle to attack the shrine is a subpar tactic in general, or are you just talking about the original deck idea?
     
  12. Gaiaix555

    Gaiaix555 Member

    Splitting a unit off to Shrine-Rush usually doesn't work, as the enemy will see it coming, use Fortify, or counter it with something else. That, and you are pulling units off of your main force to "distract" the enemy, and if your opponent doesn't take the bait, your main force is at a disadvantage. Plus your opponent always has the Transfigure option, albeit it's not a great one.

    The concept of "Deception" is best used with more of a stealth/illusion style bg, utilizing things like Firk Mindweaver, Ghost Stalker, etc. etc. Your opponent won't know which one is real, will waste time killing the others, and you can steadily use small tempo hits to overpower your opponent.
     

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