Just a few fundamental problems of IS

Warchief Stone clan - 10 nora. Tough 2 - 10 nora. Supposedly, this is because you have to wait 3 rounds for it to scale to rank 3 (like with other warchief abillities).
- Oh jee! That's so long! What if it dies before that?!
- Well, then the closest Barb gets it.
- Right...

Rock Defiance? 5 nora. Bleed - 6 nora.
Yeah, the abillities are completely unrelated, but I'm pretty sure if you have something called a brain, you can agree that the latter is much weaker.

Holy Armaments? 3 nora (I also checked other armaments, they're all the same nora and imo undercosted)

Consecration. This is a cute one. The spell costs 30 nora. The closest thing to it in terms of abillities is healing breath (which is AoE 2 and 1 time only). You'd think this abillity be around 10 nora, since it's continious mass cleanse+heal, sounds about right, right?
Well...

No, it's 6 nora


And just to rub it in...

Warchief: Blood Clan. 6 nora. Rend 3 is 8 nora and doesn't get transferred. Fearless is 2 nora.
Warchief: Storm Clan. 2 nora. Iron Will is 4 nora.

Now let's assume for the sake of the zealots that the warchiefs 3 round buildup is actually a drawback that outweights the transferring death interaction.(lol)
Even then, Stone Clan is undercosted by 7 nora, blood clan by 4, and storm clan >2 (the Skylancer abillity has been removed, so no info how much that one costs)

Update!

So Nexus Aura is 4 nora... It should be at least 8-10 (I'm more for the 10 if the CD stays the same). And I was wondering, why Barbarian Guardian is so broken.

@Markoth @Axeraiser

 

Cap the clan abilities at rank two and give a minor cost decrease. The bunny hopping around is real silly

 

A cost decrease? For what exactly? They already cost according to their rank 2 abillities.

 

Make it 8 nora. It's a theme thing or whatever. Still a good tap to start with.

 

I don't think we should start with "taps". IS needs a fullscale nerf.

 

Would also be a good idea to fix the Warchief ability. If there are multiple chiefs from the same clan in play and you kill one it isnt supposed to transfer. My own suggestion for nerfing them would be to keep the cost and effects the same but make them dispelable. If you dispel they would have to start over at rank 1 at the end of their next turn.

I agree that Armaments is undercosted.

Im not sure about my opinion of the Consecration ability. You cannot compare its costing to the spell because you also have to spend AP to get the effect. Also you can use things like Distract, Stun, Paralyze to prevent the effect while you cannot do the same for the spell.

 

Your forgetting IS sigil abiletys they are much cheaper then the original skill, i figgure while your at it. Also lets make all IS skills cost asmuch as the same as spells. So Hammerstrike is 40 nora lets make all stuns in the game close to that because thats what the skill cost.

Right?

 

If only someone would have brought up the warchief abilities multiple times in the past

 

Well actually, you've just proven my point.

Let's imagine a spell in it's full form as an ability and let's try to give it a just nora cost.

In accordance to hammer strike, we take Sapping Strike as our example. It's perfect because the damage is 10, it is physical, it's 1-5 range (like spell presence) and it has the Loss of AP effect. That costs us 5 nora. If we take the abillity stun, it costs 3 nora. It's 50% damage, so we take away that abstract value, and it's in accordance to the range of a champion (majority of the champs that have stun are 1-2 range), so the stun itself, for 1-5 range, in my book should be around 3-4 nora.
9-10 nora would be the approximate value of a hammer strike on a champion (F.Y.I. - All of the cast abillities are 10 nora). But that only means that Hammer Strike itself is undercosted and needs a 5 nora increase because of the 1:4 ratio the majority of spot effect related abillities have.

With Consecrate and consecration it's a bit different. The spell and the abillity are at 1:5 , and both are undercosted: consecrate by 5, consecration by 4.

Guys, you have to play by the rules. You can't just be stronger than everyone and not have it noticed.

 

I'd take consecration over healing breath almost every time. No reason for consecration to only cost 60% of the ability that is inferior to it.
I'm going to be referring to the cheaper healing breath for argument's sake.

The drawbacks on Consecration are that it's stationary and only affects certain classes.

The drawbacks of Healing Breath are that it can heal / cleanse enemies and can't self-target.

Now compare the two:
Consecration applies multiple cleanses. Healing Breath is one-time-only.
Consecration removes terrain mods (can be big). Healing breath doesn't do anything like that.
Consecration costs 6 nora. Healing Breath costs 10 nora in it's cheapest form.
Consecration has a much higher healing potential. Just taking a single target into account, Consecration heals for 10 hp. Healing Breath can only heal for 8. Taking AoE into account, Consecration's only healing cap is the amount of champs you can squeeze into the area. Healing Breath caps out at a total of 18 hp.
Consecration costs 4 ap. Healing Breath costs 3.
Consecration AoE 3 Range 4. Healing Breath Aoe 2 Range 3

 

Imagine a lazy koala, that doesn't talk on its own, but smiles, while he talks with you, in a devilish way :>

 

What if the clan abilities got the same treatment as Wood Elemental last patch?

Say after one transfer, the cap goes to 2, then 1, then done?

 

It'll still be an OP abillity that gives 3 ranks of an abillity to a champion with minimum effort. And, in most cases, when a champion dies, it happens in the middle of a fight so it has a risk of not generating the stacks (although, in the case of IS, your champions don't die so they do).

 

Thanks for suggesting that. I forgot that I recently play them, so I know pretty well how they work. And I already went through some of their abillities, they do seem undercosted!

But don't worry, I don't think they should get hit too much. The only real problematic champ in sigil is Amber Wing and Onyx wing. But the other ones are either fine or need minor rework imo.

 

Stone clan could use +5. I'd start with a +5 considering it's only on Bastion and Zedin. I'd still run Zedin at 82-84 but it's on Bastion's upgrades so I wouldn't take it.

Rock Defiance vs Bleed?
The two abilities have nothing in common besides being racial abilities. It's definitely strong, if Ooze Tap goes to 5 spaces Rock Defiance could go to 5 too. Have you tried playing Grints? Losing to Iajab and Norathat is probably clouding your judgement.

Sokolov already stated that thematic abilities are cheaper. But calling nerfs on Blood clan and Storm clan?

Healing Breath is a useless ability, isn't thematic and was nerfed during the revamp. I don't know anyone in the right mind who would take it as an ability. Could be deleted and no one would care.

What's your logic behind making Nexus Aura 10 nora? It seems like you're just pulling that number out of a hat.

 

No, it doesn't need +5 nora. It needs to be reworked so it's properly costed. It should not have a discount for a drawback that is just an illusion.

Yes. I've played them pre-revamp. They didn't change much. It's not clouding my judgement. Funnily enough, you didn't even say that bleed needs a cost reduction. Rock Defiance is a defensive abillity, that basically reduces dmg income for all champions once setup. I think the abillity itself, if considered only on a single champion, without any other champions on the board that make him benefit from the racial, is worth 5 nora. The fact that it works with other champs in AoE makes it much better, and AoE 5 won't change that. Either make it 8 nora or reduce the duration of additional damage and add +1 nora, so it's atleast equal in nora with sh***y bleed

What do you define as a thematic abillity? The only thing "thematic" about the warchief abillities is the death clause. Other than that, they pretty much give abillities that have a specific cost with a reduced cost for no good reason. How is this so difficult to understand?

No, it's not useless. You're just used to having cleanse and heal with easier and cheaper access. The abillity is good, could use a slight decrease,but it's more about the champions that have it suck.

 

1) Well considering the amount of reworks the Barb racial has gone under, what is your rework?

2) That's the first incorrect statement you made. Prevamp Grints is insanely different from current Grints. Prevamp there wasn't as much indirect damage and Grints were much stronger. Why would bleed need a cost reduction? It's both offensive and defensive, blood balls last forever. None of these costing make sense. 8 nora? So you're saying all the Grints are insanely OP and could stand a +3 nora increase?

4) It is useless. None of the 4 champs with access to healing breath choose it. Aspect of Life does not suck and Valdac does not suck.

 

Ofc they were much stronger. It was pre-revamp. What I mean is, they roughly maintained the same abillity set. Only real different grint is shaman, but I played him post-revamp, so w/e

How is bleed defensive? Because of the heal?

There is no point for aspect to take it healing breath because it already has enough healing combined with single target cleanse. Valdac has cleansing aura, which is a better abillity. But still, healing breath as an alternative to passive cleanse is still a viable choice, considering it heals for a decent amount.

 

Valdac maybe doesn't suck (that much) but holy crap his summon abillity does.