http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/bok-bg.18527/#post-276805 Link to first thread that escalated from a guy posting his bg to discussing the possible racial for boks. I decided this should be a seperate thread. Do you guys think Bok need a racial? If so, how would you see it be implemented? What would make them stand out?
I'd love to see a racial put in for bok. UD needs more themes that actually fit what UD is about, and the bok fit perfectly. Especially with that extra support of a racial. I see bok as flying huntresses who seek their prey down with relentless assaults. Punishing the enemy for their cowardice. Bok's Malice - This unit gains +5 damage when attacking feared units. Enemy units who disengage from this unit gain feared for 2 turns and lose 2 ap.
I don't feel bok need to be all that different from the other demons, the only thing the really have in common is that they fly and aren't imps. They're also good for the occasional weird unique things like that whole defender of chaos thing. As long as they fit in well with classic UD aggressive in your face demons why spin them into another theme? Thats just asking for more balancing difficulties and its not like we don't have enough themes. Themes I'd rather have work done on rather then spent making something completely new.
UD is the faction with the least themes, most sandbagged units, most straight forward approach, least debuffs, no cleanse, no dispel. Also, UD, like FW, has a race problem, that restricts it to race abillities like Commander, Defender etc.
While I agree, I don't think making the bok a separate thing fixes those issues. As it is our themes are currently fire, blood, or race specific. We have sort of a stealth theme too. I feel strengthening that would help with other approaches a bit. If you want more themes I'd prefer one that wasn't race specific, though I don't think another theme would make us stronger as a faction. They tend to restrict options instead of creating them, things kind of get funneled into one or two categories. I'm also fine with UD having fewer debuffs so long as we have the raw killing power to make up for it. Who needs to stun when you can kill? Fits with our flavor. Same with the cleanse, so long as we get dispel. We're demons, we break protective magic, not cast it. Though if we were to get more cleanse it probably would have to be on a bok, they seem to be the only ones with the order, training, and social structure. That or with a sever drawback (creature dies at end of turn, possibly also some damage or ap buffs to go with it).
Severe drawback cleanse is fine, I think it is essential in any faction these dies. I'm not saying it will necessarily fix those issues. But it would help UD in general. Now more or less almost every Race has some sort of theme racial thing going on. Having everything Demon in UD is a problem. Making a Bok racial is a good start on working towards differentiating UD into themes. Right now the strongest stuff is Minotaurs and UD meta. The first has gotten the most love and most work in the latest expansions/patches etc (and ofc nerfs too), while the latter is pretty much the same ol' UD shenanigans with a few new runes here and there.
Hummmm might be a bit off topic but am I missing something? No cleanse or dispel? What about purging flames, cleansing flame, dispel, dispelling blows, relieve and purefire? Depending on the ocasion you might even call it spot cleanse and dispel with purefire and purging flames (if target is in range after initiative procs).
Purging Flames - Exclusive to minotaurs, the closest thing we have to spot cleanse. Cleansing Flame is on a sandbagged Demon Lich, which is only more or less runnable at 79 norain Fire(although I still wouldn't run him just cause of the HP:Nora ratio), Flowing Ember sucks too. I don't like Shadowrake, but I guess he is runnable in UD goodstuff. But there's beater options there, and Hunter:Meek is 8 nora, and in 8/10 games is useless. Relieve on Griefbearer is actually pretty good, but yet again, he is a sandbagged rune with psychic eater that is 8 nora and does no firking **** whatsoever. Purefire doesn't cleanse anymore, welcome to 2016.
I actually really like the shadowrake, 8 speed and hunter quick is pretty useful against a bunch of good champs. Also attack acid is a nice change in damage type that some of my bgs need. However I find he needs to have pawn for survivability despite how much we need anti healing and dispel. Also, having it on one expensive champ that needs to melee attack and can't do anything for a couple turns means you won't really have it when you need it. Edit: While I like the idea of purefire I find its only really runnable in a fire bg. Fixing it up a bit might be a good place to start. Very expensive for a single target dispell. I personally would love a dispel that hit the field, possibly hurting our own champs. Sort of reverse cleansing storm.
Purefire doesnt cleanse but it dispel. Depending on your bg flowing ember is runnable, but ok probably too specific. Now I can't see why stoker is exclusive to minotaurs, he's pretty efficient at 59 nora for spot cleanse (assuming you can afford the 10 dmg from flame siphon) and decentish stats with init 2. Also, depending on your bg he's a dispelling machine!
Yeah, I thought of running him in meta, but I dunno, on some maps he's not gonna be useful at all, so it's still nothing compared to actual spot cleanse. I've tried purefire and I'm not paying 35 nora only for dispel.
UD has Purefire for Dispel and FW has a good amount of Commander, decent amount of Defender no boost. UD has some Defender champs too.
I would run undertortoise if it lost heacy crosboew or Turtle. Vanguard pays too much nora when not in Arrow Eater stuffs. Yeah, Purefire, but it's only somewhat effective in Fire decks, I don't pay in other factions that much nora for dispel. It's not an 100% essential way of dealing with things in all of the games, especially for UD with the brutal damage. Because the dispel isn't accesed in a cheaper abstract form(even with some masochistic mechanic involved), it's terrible.
Only some factions have spot dispel. If you don't want to pay for Dispel use Griefbearer or Shadowhunter.