Changes to Zombies

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by potatonuts, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Lots of changes, some good, some not so good but overall it's looking promising.

    All summons lost upgrades but Festering Corpse has Rabid on base now so it's not such a bad thing. The Zombie Herder change is bittersweet IMO, looks like Lumbering types will be taking a vacation for now.

    Zombie Herder
    • Nora Cost increase (+5)
    • AP Cost decrease (-1)
    • Description: Friendly Zombies within 5 spaces gain 3 AP and Charge for 1 turn.
    Bile Zombie
    • Default Cost to 39
    • HP increase (+2)
    • Starting Abilities: Self Destruct
    Bladed Corpse
    • Classes: BRUTE
    Bonecrusher
    • Classes: BRUTE

    Festering Corpse
    • Default Cost to 31
    • Classes: BRUTE
    • Starting Abilities: Lumbering, Attack: Physical, Rabid, Zombie Apocalypse
    • Upgrade Set 1: Inhibiting Touch, Latch On (default)
    • Upgrade Set 1: Disease Aura 2, Death Nova: Disease 3 (default)

    Zombie Behemoth
    • Classes: BRUTE
    Mairdreth of the Rot
    • Default Cost to 84
    • Starting Abilities: Flight, Attack: Physical, Desecrated Zone, Hunter: Diseased
    • Upgrade Set 1: Rabid 1, Rabid 2 (default), Foul Strike
    • Upgrade Set 1: Disease Aura 3, Zombie Apocalypse (default), Forsaken Exploit
    Corpse Golem
    • Default Cost to 61
    • Classes: BRUTE
    • Upgrade Set 1: Disease Aura 2, Disease Aura 3 (default), Rabid 3

    Crypt Guardian
    • Default Cost to 69
    • Classes: SHAMAN
    Risen Moga
    • Classes: SHAMAN
    Moragen the Lost
    • Default Cost to 81
    • Damage increase (+1)
    • HP increase (+3)
    • Starting Abilities: Attack: Sonic, Hero, Zombie Apocalypse, Siren's Song
    • Upgrade Set 1: Dread, Hex 2, Deafening Aura (default)
    • Upgrade Set 1: Relocate: Ally, Battle Hymn, Absorb (default)
    Fleshweaver Witch
    • Default Cost to 85
    • HP decrease (-4) <-----Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck
    Zombie Headchucker
    • Classes: RANGER
     
  2. negatorxx

    negatorxx I need me some PIE!

    IDK, charge on herder is pretty solid
     
  3. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    That's why I'm saying bittersweet, it's a big improvement for non lumberers.

    She is going to cost something like 90 nora now though, that's going to be a pain to deal with.
     
  4. negatorxx

    negatorxx I need me some PIE!

    oh did i miss the part where it no longer removes lumbering?
     
  5. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I think you did.
     
  6. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Well it will be Good to see people run zombies without feeling they need to rely on fleshweaver to compete
     
    IMAGIRL and kalasle like this.
  7. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    Elsarin night gives 2 speed and crushing charge if you need to speed up zombies.
     
    Anima26 likes this.
  8. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I'm split down the middle over it. It has positives and negatives, overall i think the theme is fine but regarding Fleshweaver it was an extremely bad change and I won't touch her with a barge-pole until she gets reworked.

    In regard to the positives, the theme seems to be just as strong as it was before due to the fact that without lumbering zombies it plays a bit more like a normal bg and as such is less vulnerable to rushes or being split up and outmaneuvered which is in fact a very good thing for the theme. Sadly though i think we've just traded Fleshweaver for Rotwrapper, he is pretty much holding the theme together right now.

    I don't think the theme has gotten much weaker if at all but it's basically had the heart and soul of it's play style torn out, the play style without Fleshweaver is drastically different. Ignoring any arguments about whether or not the theme is better or worse, the fact for me personally is that what i loved about the theme originally has now been taken away from it. You can no longer contend with stronger opponents using cheap meaty efficiency, Lumbering options are an extremely inefficient choice and swarms are practically walking targets.

    So i still like zombies, but i think removing the component which gave them their unique playstyle and set them apart from the rest of the themes was a Firking abominable design choice.
     
    Netherzen likes this.
  9. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Do you actually feel you are getting good value out of her though?

    I just can't quite get over the 88 nora price tag, she doesn't seem to have enough impact on a game to justify it and she'd be incredibly easy to kill if you don't keep her way at the back the whole time.
     
  10. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Right but I've been playing structs recently and i just can't stop comparing her to silverclan tinkerer for 65 nora. I feel like we are getting ripped off.
     
  11. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    The Coordinating powerturns i can't argue with, but Rotwrapper does everything else for a lower cost. I still see value in deploying her but for that price i think getting some more meat out might be the way to go.
     
  12. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    This is pretty much what it comes down to for me, I suppose if you always deploy her when she isn't at risk of getting rushed then the price isn't such a big deal. Like you said also, having the choice of two influential units can be a great benefit and now that I've dropped everything with lumbering she would probably have more or less the same impact as she used to.

    What did you mean by two free zombies by the way?

    Not missing Afflicted Corpse at all btw, which is funny because I thought I would. I noticed you don't run Corpse Golem, I'm getting on really with him lately and i think he's definitely worth a try.
     
  13. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    But that's only one?

    I Deploy Wandering Zombie ASAP every game, he is so good against early pressure on mid font. Corpse Golem usually shows up when i have enough meat to shield him from being one rounded and apply disease to take advantage of BD, i don't find any other zombie can hit as hard as he does with aura, it's 20 damage against 0 def diseased targets.

    This is how i feel and i think one of the reasons i started to play zombies was because they have so many inbuilt counters to the problems that you commonly counter. With Soulreave alone you can pretty much deal with anything. If i'm not getting rushed then the only thing i really struggle with these days is Cleanse and Heal spam.

    I am surprised you don't run ED though, it's probably one of my best weapons against rushes.
     
  14. kussel

    kussel The King of Potatoes

    Capture.PNG
    This is my current iteration, corrupted guardian was mainly there for that map where 2x2s were super good, it still comes in handy so idk if ill take it out. After the fleshweaver change i'm playing round with one to see how good or not it is. Down to one afflicted for that same reason. Also trying enervating collar, it's done decently so far.
     
  15. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    That is quite similar to what I'm running now, only one Wandering Zombie though? That is utter madness.


    Ok i get what you are saying now, never really thought about it like that.

    I'm tempted to put 2x back in as I've noticed quite a few moments where I don't really know what to deploy and end up throwing out Moragen or something else not entirely necessary. Moragen is also really good now btw, shits on ranged units with Deafening Aura and Absorb.
     
  16. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I'm up in the air about the zombie changes right now, the change to remove lumbering really hurt the theme. Zombies were all about cheap spamable meat, now with the new change I can't justify running any of the cheaper lumbering zombies except afflicted. Also zombies already had access to some form of movement in crushing charge from elsarin, gonna play them a bit more to see what's up.

    Edit:

    I see that 60 nora average price tag for my bg and just can't get used to it lol. I do run an average of 19 champs though, but my average zombie bg cost before with 19 champs was 56. Mairdreath is also still pretty bad, I must just have a problem with x2 units hat cost over 70 nora or something.

    I can't really justify dropping flesh weaver either because she puts out meat so rarely now and they are lumbering lol.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  17. kussel

    kussel The King of Potatoes

    Yeah just just one, rarely been in a situation in which i needed both, if it does occur i'll add it back
     
  18. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I like having two because if the first one is doing well then the second can often seal the deal on mid font. They are so good at delaying until you get you meat ready for a powerturn.
     
  19. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    You guys had any success with zombies after the patch ?
     
  20. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    upload_2016-8-4_19-36-52.png

    Well, looks like lumberers are back on the menu, I think I'll be running this for a while to see how it all fits together now.

    Monstrosity is looking pretty sweet, I'm surprised Stun/Defiling Aura made it through as that sounds very hard to deal with but I'll probably be running it with ZA.

    Must admit I'm pretty much lost with the whole Zombie Herder 'If they already have Charge then they get Crushing Charge instead' when no zombies have charge.... @Sokolov am i missing something?
     

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