Did I heard a couple of complaints about other factions being OP compared to us, did I? Well, I think it's the first time in history I heard some brothers think alike. Though, the whole thing is disguised as a general query to improve one of our most dearest runes (I've to be honest, if I use it, it's because I can take it). Guys, if you need AP for a powerturn, simply use any other means. I mean, following the other guys' advice of using Hookfiend, and that other useless hooker, I found myself having plenty of chances to play a powerturn with a couple of extra aid. Anyways, only thing we can expect is that the next Re-we are going to try fixing all the damage SOE have done to this game...kind of-vamp tonewhatever ideas which are causing powercreep down. The guys are supposed to be originals from the Octopi era, so there is a chance that they put this game back into the right path...which SOE attrociously missguided, but I don't think toying with PoV will solve anything in the near future. Kind of. I mean, it's a situation where we should have enough champions engaged or at-range to make two-hit barrage worth. How many times have I seen that happen?
I honestly didn't remember it working that way either, but if you go from description alone, that's what's implied. They should probably clear that up. The truth of the matter is the factionalist response prevents tons of runes that clearly show a need to either be tied to a theme, thus ameliorated, or just generally improved-- which most people are against, from ever being in consideration. Let's say it needs nothing, okay then this thread is pointless. Humor its people, don't, or declare your reason/enlighten them on their mistake nature. For the sake of the thread, let's say it needs something-- why not discuss what that something could be? This is the much harder path, and it's infinitely simpler to come in a thread and spout an unsupported one-liner about even the notion of discussion being unnecessary, despite an analysis indicating otherwise. But what you and I can evidently see is OP is something many a KF player wouldn't even realize to run and that becomes the basis. What is 'OP' to most, is standard, 'passable,' and runes like these are passed over, forgotten and people say it's "Fine." I can appreciate this more since I always tried to look at the entire populace of runes, then the faction's allowances compared to its themes. PoV is a 3 star rune (border 2.5) at best. I just like fun stuff, I've used every rune UD has to offer. PoV can cost you matches, and there are enough ulterior tactics that render it used obscurely or in tandem with other runes e.g. double dwarf+PoV+PoV or if you're doing a +hp set, but this is, essentially, what I could say about almost any rune.
PoV is in the fine UD tradition of hurting yourself to gain an advantage. The fact that it can't be spammed indiscriminately is a good thing, the game needs more runes you have to think about before using. And I really disagree with the idea that if you don't use it to win, then you lose to shrine rushing. Aside from on a couple of maps, it is actually pretty rare to be shrine rushed, even when you have 40hps or so. Most decks, and most players, aren't suited to making a tactical shift to go for the shrine, and the risk in doing so is much greater than in using PoV.
You do realize that both Lash Down and March of Skeezick are strictly restricted to specific race making them unusable in most circumstances, you wrote it yourself. That's the downside of those spells, restrictions and limited use, you quite handly managed to ommit that. Price of Victory doesn't give a rats ass if you run bok, demon or mutant fairy, you get flat 5 hp and 2 ap for 50% of your shrine health. Why you're trying to prove that both of those spells are significantly better than PoV is troublesome though. You admited to running PoV quite often, why it needs a change then? Right, it doesn't, it's as good a spell as it can get. Frankly you should listen to badger, he knows what he's talking about.
I don't omit it, you just said you read it in my post. I don't think an accusation should contradict itself, and it's 50% your shrine health AND 40n, Lash down is decent even before the effect that's race exclusive. I don't think you actually read what I was saying. I used every single rune UD has to offer, that doesn't mean they're all good, that doesn't even mean most of them are comparable, PoV is borderline. If PoV cost 50% your shrine health, and prevented your nora gen next turn, It'd be more interesting or if it cost what it cost less didn't cost shrine health, but gave all your champs vulnerability:X permanently. I heed and appreciate every single post on a topic of interest, but the 'listen' you're referring to just means blanket acceptance. That's not something I'll ever do; I don't think you even understand the vantage of my argument. Badger knows me and, I'm certain, recalls my opinions on it. I'm completely with him on 'the game needs more of this.' But that's still just an opinion, and it doesn't do anything to stop the game being largely composed of runes who aren't like this, or are superior without detriment and strictly speaking just because you like the letter Z doesn't keep it from being preceded by A through Y. We could still go on forever saying well, I use Z occasionally so it's ok, and just ignore the fact that its use is exceedingly rare instead of thinking 'how can I pimp my Z's' Who said this? I just said I wouldn't use it on certain maps at all.
That post wasn't really directed at you Legato, just the thread in general. It would be an interesting comparison if there was another spell like PoV which didn't damage the shrine but cost, say, 60 Nora. Which one would be run? I suspect it would still be PoV as a drawback can be mitigated, but extra Nora always hurts.
I said you did mention the race restriction but FAILED to list it as a main reason why those spells are cheaper/different than PoV. Those are the drawbacks of those spells - race restrictions. It's like trying to compare Rally the Herd with Quickening. You also don't have to tell me it cost nora, we're big boys y'know. The Lash Down argument thing you mentioned. Mate, there's a reason why it's not used outside of treefolk, it's light years away from 'decent', it's not even close to 'ok' without the ap gain. Can't be bothered to explain why, it's quite obvious. Yea sure we can thoerycraft, try to compare green with blue and try to change PoV into mobi on steroids. The big question is... why? The spell is perfect just the way it is and any effort to change it is a wasted one. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, so they say.
I think PoV is excellent the way it is. Kinda like badger said, this game needs more runes that make you think before just mindlessly spamming them.
Being "fair" is only a positive thing when you're surrounded by fairness; otherwise, it's a liability -- a handicap, or voluntary disadvantage. Why play with "fair" runes when you can spam idiot-proof facemelt runes? Of course it's more gratifying to win on fair terms, but frequently losing to people who don't care about that concept is infuriating and discouraging. It's nice to say PoV is great because it's not Mobi, but when you're losing to mobi powerturns, where each of your foe's dozen skellies is gaining 4 AP, it's hard to chalk it up to "well, I can always sacrifice a unit for nora, though." Saying that every faction has its own uber runes doesn't justify any of them, and some are more uber than others. I don't think PoV needs a buff, to clarify; I simply think Mobi is way over the top. +3 AP or maybe even +2 AP would still give it a place in every single FW BG -- albeit perhaps with a slight shift in cost.
Hey guys, with Hook fiend, Summoner, and DEM do you really think that it's necessary to sacrifice your shrine/avatar for a meager power turn? I mean, these guys aren't cost restrictive, are effective in combat, and are "fair". I have made plenty of power turns with them and their DMG/AP buff simply because it's better than trying luck with PoV. My point it, and I have to agree with Caine, PoV is no longer as good as it used to be. Let's be frank, it's not Mobi. It's not Quick, nor DB either. If I were to use it, I did better rack up every OP rune in UD just to have a chance at it. As I said, I rather build my own power turns one champion at a time, than increasing the risks.
Draconic Benediction has fallen out of use in most SL decks too in order to make room for Quicken, Purge, Magnetize, and other spells. Quickening is generally more favored for powerturns.
PoV is not stupid powerful , but the 2 AP is usually enough......... more often then not i combine hook-fiend Battle Drum and PoV for 3 AP power turn. All in all i say PoV is still auto-include in most UD bgs , even in its condition
lol @ auto. It has its place, and although I recall several BG I replaced it in favor of relocation/DEM I wouldn't say it's as bad as you guys are suggesting. I just think it needs an update/shift in its dynamic.
