Over efficient champ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by limone1981, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Seems simple fix although I hesitate to suggest it because I think it's fine...

    Sac just needs to start on cd... but I'd prefer it just be for this champ perhaps a new ability that starts things on cd

    They could still sac it but would need something more like sac alter
     
  2. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    lol sacrifice on cooldown would literally shoebox it for an eternity.
     
  3. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Depends it would still have init and engage and be a real pain in the ass to position around.

    If they avoid killing it you sac it the next round.

    If desperate enough you use a ritual or sacrifice to explode it early.

    It's been awhile but I think it didn't used to have sac and was still used back then, could be wrong though.

    Honestly though I don't believe it needs to change
     
  4. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    Sac on cooldown would shoebox it
     
    MaruXV likes this.
  5. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    Doubt it but it's possible.

    Wouldn't be an auto include any more for sure, but I'd run it in worms and possibly skeletons or zombies depending on my sac sources

    Again I don't want to see it change I think it's fine I'm mostly arguing devils advocate at this point
     
  6. edmek55555

    edmek55555 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I agree with that. However I have said time after time, worms bz simply doesn't have a fix unless worms itself is fixed. Bz is fine. He just happens to have synergy with an ability that is a bit broken atm
     
  7. chris0024

    chris0024 I need me some PIE!

    Shoebox and auto incluse do not mean the same thing but in this case it does. The fact that BZ would no longer be an auto include would shoebox it for worms. Worms rely on BZ's late game magnificence to really shine and if it's not there then they kind of have a hard time doing any substantial dmg to finish an opponent.

    So instead of saying doubt it why not try "highly likely" instead :p
     
  8. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well with things like this I usually test it in games, but I neither have the runes, nor the interest to really learn wurms well enough to have an informed opinion on whether it would still make the cut in wurms but I would think more then any other theme wurms would still use him just what I think from facing them rather frequently.
     
  9. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    then shh?
     
  10. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    If everyone stopped talking about things they were unexperienced with playing these forums would be rather quiet

    But I'll admit that the opinion of the people playing it should likely hold more weight then mine
     
  11. chris0024

    chris0024 I need me some PIE!

    To an extent I will agree, but we have enough experience in the game to be aware how certain mechanics will play out. Sometimes it is even even necessary to have an outside opinion that does not have experience with the subject mtater to inject a different perspective that might shine light on something that was previously not seen.

    So while atm you're a little off on whether BZ will be shoebox or not you should definitely always voice your opinion.

    If a player tells you that you shouldn't because you have no experience with said subject then just tell them to go fudge themselves :p:D
     
    edmek55555 likes this.
  12. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Bad logic, that's like saying immunity physical is op, if a champion had immunity physical magical, acid, electric etc. As well as the spell resist. The combo has no weakness, not the ability. That's why resist magical and ethereal is considered strong, but neither are in particular separately
     
  13. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Its not even that I disagree with you, its just that I have no idea what you're trying to say most of the time.
     
    SPiEkY likes this.
  14. edmek55555

    edmek55555 Devotee of the Blood Owl

    1. It does have a weakness, playing well.
    2. Any self destruct, death nova unit would be powerful in worms, it doesn't mean self destruct shouldn't be a thing, neurosis just combos well with any death nova
     
  15. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    Playing well isn't a weakness, when arguing balance, you assume both players play well, especially in pox
     
  16. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    I was referring to you not seeing rip demons pwn face recently. When I was playing, every UD deck ran a rip demon.

    If you say don't see something, then I argue you haven't been playing alot (I used to play alot over 2-3 weeks, didn't see you on much) then I'm quite that is a fact a "real" argument (whatever the Firk that means).

    As for my cconcerns, in the case of rip, removing ally is a simple solution. My concerns are not usully about balance but rather design. Nerfing / buffing doesn't really make the game better, unless it is in the context of design change.
     
  17. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Sok said that in-faction Ally is getting removed and has already covered Rip Demon during that discussion. Perhaps your forum browsing skills need a touch-up. *wink wink*
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Seeing a rune pwn face, and seeing it in play, and knowing it's being played, are 3 different things. My argument was that while the Rip Demon was being played, I didn't think it was significantly outperforming expectations. So replying, "if you haven't seen it you aren't playing enough" is basically useless and irrelevant, because I never said it wasn't being played.

    I get information from in-game in various ways, both by playing and watching, via main and alt accounts, second hand information from players, and data.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    And my comment regarding pwning face was about balance, and the context of the discussion was that it was OPed, a balance concern.

    Basically, my point was, "I don't think it's so crazy OP that we should do more than remove Ally: X atm" (which was happening even prior to this thread) so I am glad you agree with the solution.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  20. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    because literally every UD deck containing a rip demon is good design.

    also, can you take some "data" from me next time? I made a whole tier list of skeletons so that if you nerfed/changed skeletons, you would actually buff a lower tier unit to compensate, but instead you just took away one of the most important skeletons with no compensation. Not to mention they had their boost mechanics nerfed the previous patch, and weren't really played in the top elo frequently despite what beta males on the forums say. They were also a cheese theme, and actually didn't work versus good players a majority of the time anyways.

    Not to mention the whole reason you nerfed them was probably because of me in the first place, and my presence on the forums.
     

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