Game of Thrones

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MrBadguy, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    pshhh....
    nothin personnel... kid
     
  2. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    I don't know anything sonic or it's crazy weird fandom. so I don't care.
     
  3. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

  4. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    get that sonichu Bane Shift outa here
     
  5. Saandro

    Saandro I need me some PIE!

    Dude... It's just a meme.
     
  6. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    .... isn't this you?
     
  7. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    I have mixed feelings about this episode and the whole season in general.
    In general, I actually like that the pace of the stoytelling has increased. It's been a while since I read the books, but if I recall it correctly, book 4 was extremely slow and quite boring to read.
    It sometimes felt to me as if GRRM was afraid to start with the final clash of main characters that we have happening now. So I really enjoyed that this season finally brought the plot forward in a meaningful, not back-and-forth manner.

    On the other hand, the plot has become too black and white. For some reason, all the "good guys" like each other at first sight (or finally forgive each other), while those who are the endgame villains keep acting against everyone else. The show became so much more predictable ... which is no real surprise. But for me, it has lost most of its edge. It's a nice fantasy show now, but also very vanilla.

    Some things I didn't like in particular are that Littlefinger died so senselessly. What was his endgame? We'll never know. Chaos is a ladder -- but where did he intend to go? Also, it's pretty much a shame that the master plotter of the entire show got defeated by a Bran who just can see everything. In a game of hidden information, omniscience is cheating. Very disappointing.
    Daeneris and Arya lost all my sympathy. They kill whoever they want but are still the good guys. Weird and boring.
     
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  8. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    But Bran had a handicap accessible elevator.

    And yeah, they basically cut off LF for the plot's convenience after having him do nothing interesting all season. At least Varys had some good moments but they're nowhere near the level they were at on the earlier seasons. All the good and bad can be attributed to the yearly release schedule and logistics of production plus appealing to your target/most profitable audience.
     
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  9. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    the 'good' guys don't all like each other on sight, though. if you're talking about jon in particular, his whole thing right now is that everyone alive should be on his team. plus which, he has a strong influence on group dynamics due to a mixture of his rank, resurrection, and skill with his sword.

    also we knew that littlefinger's endgame was ruling westeros. that's been established. and the only endgame villains at this point are cersei and the night king, really, and they're both very well defined characters when it comes to what they want.


    i was never that hooked by the intrigue part of the show that some people i talk to hype up / miss, it never seemed all that interesting to me- baelish was a perpetual gambler, and he tended to pick relatively low chance of risk gambles. this is seen most obviously when you see him managing ned and robert; two people that had no sense for intrigue. managing young sansa was similarly easy, she had to learn a lot from him.

    the thing is, though, that baelish has a track record of Firking up. a fair bit of what he's done has gone badly wrong for him, and he was saved primarily by his utility. in the north, he has no utility. in the north, he has no saviors or allies. even without bran, sansa telling the knights of the vale that baelish killed lysa would've been enough to seriously damage his standing.


    also i don't think i'd lump arya into that equation. you could make a real argument for dany, but arya's pretty much stuck to her list the whole way
     
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  10. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Oh yeah, definetely. Agreed 100%.
     
  11. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    It's just that everyone is on Danaerys side now, for some reason.
    Even though she is a foreign invade. Even though she burns people alive.
    Everyone believes in her. Believes that she will make the world a better place.
    Will she? We see no contemplation about 'the poor common people' anymore.
    We hear no concerns about the winter and feeding the common folk.
    It's all about conquering now.

    That said, she burnt people alive, and Tyrion complained. Maybe he will murder her later.

    The lovestory between Danaerys and Jon also seems too forced by the plot.
    The acting is also not particularly impressive. Compare this to the slow arc between Jon and Ygritte.
    Not that the acting was any better for the Jon character.

    How was it established that Littlefingers endgame was ruling Westeros? Varys said so, yes; but does this make that true?
    Besides, wasn't he a Lord after all? Shouldn't he have the right for a Trial by Combat or taken the Black?
    Don't get me wrong; he was a villain and one had seen this fate coming for him since season one,
    it's this utter lack of surprise and that it was only one boring scene with Deus Ex Bran information that made this rather disappointing.
    No outwitting him whatsoever.

    You may be right for Arya. Maybe it's just this akward acting that makes me cringe whenever I see Arya.
    Or maybe it's the fact that she has become a super Assassin in a world where noone is left to assassinate.
    She returned for seasons too late. There is only Cersei left now; but she is promised for one of her brothers;
    the Mountain is for the Hound. Becoming a super Assassin was cool while she and everyone else were still underdogs who had to hide and suffer.
    But now all those she could have saved have already be saved by themselves or someone else.

    Sorry for the long rant. I used to love those books; but I've grown somewhat disappointed by now.
    It's still a great show, but all the hype about it is lost on me. I enjoyed "The Darkness that comes before" series by Scott Bakker so much more,
    even though I really found the lack of strong female characters in the first two novels really annoying.
     
  12. Saandro

    Saandro I need me some PIE!

    Brienne chapters are boring, but overall book 4 is the most interesting and well written. GRRM wasn't afraid to start the final clash. In fact when he started writing book 4 for the first time he used a time skip and went straight into the action. But found that it doesn't work. You need time to establish characters and their motivations, and you need time to build up everything properly.
     
  13. MrBadguy

    MrBadguy Guest

    Cool poem, ipox.

    @newsbuff
    Sing this to some rock karaoke.
     
  14. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    i don't see it as everyone being on dany's side, though. the westerosi that joined up before she came over the water are dead now, but were united by a common enemy prior to that. aside from the northerner contingent, who else has she even met that other people *could* be on her side? tyrion+varys are like the only options there, right? and they've been with dany for a while and seem to like her big-picture types of things, even while in the micro she's got her ****ups.

    also yeah, you have to conquer before you can rule. she did mention her armies would starve prior to her riding a dragon out and scorching some lannisters (and probably taking their grain). as for the burning people alive bit, i think it's worth noting that dragonfire seems to give particularly quick deaths. this isn't the mance rayder sort of burning alive, this is crisped in an instant.


    i think jon's fine, he just has two faces- quiet+broody and talking+broody. what bugs me more about jon+dany is that dany came to westeros with no attachments specifically for a potential alliance by marriage. jon is increasingly the best candidate as she loses more allies, and not a single advisor says anything about it.


    baelish told sansa he wanted to be sitting on the iron throne with her at his side. i'd say that's pretty Firking clear cut. even if he hadn't, there aren't a lot of other options but the top when all you want to do is go up.

    also, he admitted to killing lysa. with just that, he would've lost the vale (and thus his only hope at safety or fairness in the north). with the accusations of the bigger conspiracy, no one's going to stand for him.

    ALSO, of course he was blindsided. it's not a problem for me that they finally have sansa seeing through his bullshit, especially since she's had reason to be distasteful of him ever since the bolton marriage.


    i'll agree that watching arya can be awkward, she's a very different character now from the last time anyone in westeros saw her, and it's odd for all of them. she has yet to show much real emotion, aside from complaining that the lords were disrespecting jon.

    i'm expecting her main assassination mission to be putting on littlefinger's face, going after cersei, and finding jaime standing over cersei's body.


    i've never really adored the show (and never got into the books, for what that's worth. i read the first one, it didn't hook me). i think it's got a big budget, a fairly solid set of writers and actors, and very little competition in terms of being a 'televised', mature content, high fantasy mashup. it's good for what it is, but i wouldn't say it blew me away, or that i was particularly impressed, at any point in the show thus far.
     
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  15. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    we've not actually seen the opinions of most westerosi lords other than Tarly ( barbequed) and the Northern lords are already unhappy that Jon is gone so long.
     
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  16. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    A couple times someone has asked littlefinger what he wanted and his response was 'all there is'. Sounds like an endgame to me. I think his end wasn't built up enough though, would have been better for him to have caused a real rift between Sansa and Jon that would have been foiled by arya.

    Bran isn't omniscient. At least he can't see everything at once. He needed to be told Jon wasn't a Sand.

    Conflicts have to wrap up at some point. This isn't an open ended saga. I'd rather have closure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  17. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I've logged in just to like the 3 last posts.
    You guys saved me so much writing time, thanks.
    And yeah, sure this season felt rushed, sure they could easily make a show with 10 episodes to cover the whole ground - but does it really matter at this point?
    I mean, FFS people we have clash of dragons next season, and not some weird puppet/bad CGI dragon fight - the dragons are the most beautiful piece of CGI I have seen in my life.
    We've had 6 seasons of betrayal, surprises, loved characters dying and all that - cool. Now, as Ragic said, we need closure. And I'm pretty happy with the way this season was delivered. Call me a fan, I trully am.
    Now, I do agree with one thing, though: Jon and Dany's romance feels too forced. Would it really be worse if they were developing a relationship, falling in love with each other slowly (after all, they both suffered from their lovers premature death), just to find out later on that they were aunt/nephew? I think it could add depth to the whole thing.
    But oh well, that ship has sailed. For all we know Dany could be pregnant by now, so might as well just let it go and go with it, thats what Ill do.
     
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  18. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    did they ever name the children of Elia Martell and Rheagar Targ in the show? I believe not, still if they have the book names that means Rheagar had 2 sons named Aegon.

    in the book of course young Griff is actually Aegon son of Elia and Rheagar

    it's interesting to see how they merge characters, same with Jorah Mormont adopting parts of Jon Connington with the greyscale.

    I asume book real name for Jon will be different.
     
  19. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    Well you guys are right in that it all makes some sense. I just state my strongly biased opinion (one of my favourite characters died in such an unspectacular way) that some things could have been made more interesting.

    I think my main concern is, that this show has gone from "anybody can die" to "it's now obvious who will live and die in the end".
    It has gone from somewhat grim and dark to vanilla Dizney fantasy.
    But maybe I'm wrong ...
     
  20. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    No, I don't think they did. The only mentions are from Oberyn saying the Mountain killed his sister's children and all, but I don't recall him calling them by name.
    Either way, doesn't really matter, for all we know it was Lyanna who named the child herself at that very moment, after all Rhaegar was battling Robert at that time. I don't see a problem with it.

    Oh, don't get me wrong bud, I do respect your opinion and I do get where you are coming from.
    However, this shift from "anybody can die" to "it's now obvious who willlive and die" also has to do with the fact that it is a fantasy series as well - no point about focusing only on betrayals and politics when dragons roam the sky and the dead walk.
    I'd just like to point out something, from every rewiew I read/watched from this last episode:
    1) Everybody thought hell was going to break loose on the dragon pit;~
    2) Everybody thought Tyrion would die when he met Cersei;
    3) Everybody thought Jaime would die when he announced he would leave Cersei;
    4) I called it, but most people didn't think Sansa and Arya were working together to unmask Littlefinger;
    5) A lot of callbacks to Ned Stark, who made the show what it is;
    6) The wall finally comes down after thousands and thousands of years - WHAT;
    7) Jon not only is the son of R+L, he is the rightful heir (I dont count that spoil from Gilly);
    8) Jaime abandoning her sister and joining the good guys ranks.

    For me it was a spectacular season finale, even though it felt "less shocking" than the previous, and in that way Im pretty happy looking in retrospective with the pace and shift of the season.
    I mean, sure, we know Beric and Tormund survived, but killing them would really make the show better?
    I feel that people who are overly criticizing GoT at this point are just too attached to political dramas and not really into an epic fantasy show, which it really is atm.
    Oh well, to each his own.
     

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