Are we talking about the map with river in the middle? It's inconsistent compared to other middle font maps. If you're going first, and you don't have nora for a next turn drop. You have to be careful to not mess up. Which is not something you have to worry about on other maps. If your opponent goes first and is unaware of the intricacy. It's your advantage to gain. Out of all my games, I've probably only auto-won once in said scenario. Is it worth the annoyance? *Shrug*
It's the map where the bottom player needs to move 1 space for font and can reach middle font with 4 speed champs I think. While top needs to move 3 spaces for his font and I think 7-8 spaces for middle. Simply put, this map is Firking stupid and whoever designed it, should never make another ranked map. It's basically gg if you are top player, cause you play from behind no matter what. And that isn't considering reinforcing, just the first 3 champions. It's as imbalanced as can be and no fun to play. Bring back Friendly Quit so we can atleast avoid this mess. I miss this option.
mid font is 7 spaces for player 1, 5 for player 2. Unless you have a unit that can move 7 in a single turn you need to deploy for mid then go to side second turn. Idea behind it is to reduce the turn 1 advantage by having them give up a little extra nora in exchange for extra AP on first engagement & being the one that can make the first move.
I case of bad draws, you can deploy "in the middle" of your deployment zone. So that you can cap the side font if opponent deploys towards side font and go for middle to contest if the deploy is toward that font. The opponent can then keep the advantage by playing a 7 spd in middle of the deployment zone. But in this scenario it's down to a bad draw vs a good draw. Also try to include multiple 7 spds when deck building. Other maps in the rotation requires 7 spds to gain/avoid an early game advantage.
I won't add to the early game aspects of the map, outside of general advice that map draw and rune draw strongly dictate the flow of the game and, outside of grievous instances (e.g. original Auxilium map), you have to roll with the punches and make best with what you have. This is my least favorite map in the current rotation and I dread playing on it. One aspect that hasn't been discussed is map imbalance after the early game settles. If player 1 (top) takes mid early, there is very little player 2 (bottom) can do as player 1 is immediately able to press down on player 2's shrine. If the game plays out more evenly at the start and both players are still fighting for mid-font, player 2 has a huge advantage for most of the mid and late game. The mid-font tends to be the most active area on this map, and player 2 has 5 spaces for its units to proceed into the "action" as opposed to 7 spaces for player 1.
The map design is intentional. This map is easy to criticize, because most player's instincts lie with equating symmetrical with fairness but it really isn't the case. Most maps have a higher win rate for P1 - despite the nora adjustment, mostly because P1 has many advantages just by nature of the game. You can read some previous discussions of the map here: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/that-one-font-on-that-one-map.24322/ Right now there are issues preventing me from changing maps easily, but feedback is still valuable however in general I don't believe symmetrical design is the only way to go so arguments based on symmetry won't be as effective. This map is intended to test asymmetrical map design and statistically reduced the P1 WR to something more acceptable, so to that end it has succeeded (I don't have NEW data visually ready, but you can see some old data here: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/2015-03-to-2015-09-player-one-wr-map-data.18728/). Specifically, the new version of the map did start out at pretty even, but... That said, as I said in the previous thread, people do seem to play it "wrong" sometimes and put themselves into a SEVERE disadvantage because the map does ask you to approach deployment differently than you used to. And that's not so great if the map allows for that.
Also, the map is kthir forest but new client displays wrong (ie file names) names. Just new client things
For those who don't click links, this is a relevant image for those who are going first on this map and want to hedge their bets: If you deploy at X with a 5 SPD champ or at Y with a 6 SPD champ, you can get to either font safely (without giving one up), depending on how P2 responds. The problem with this is that this is un-intuitive, and completely different than how you play on every other map. ~ When I am allowed to change maps again, I will probably move P1's Shrine 1 space closer just because this concern does come up often enough and I understand the unintuitiveness of it, but this is likely to push P1's advantage further on this map (and you can see from the data above that P1 already wins more often than not, despite this disavantage). But I do wish people would be more willing to adapt as well.
It is probably true that the map has the most important mid font of all the maps, but I also like the fact that different positions on the various maps have different levels of importance and requires adjustment from the players.
The Win% Ratio is really unexpected. I thought it would be a clear win for player 2(south). Anyways I dislike it for the following reason: Player 1(North) ; Player 2(South) No Initiative Champions, no 7 speed champions(7 speed champions are rare and in most cases expensive, may result in no champion drop in round 2) Best Scenario: Round 1: P1 drops champ for middle font. P2 drops champ for side font. Round 2: P1 moves closer to middle font and places champ for side font. P2 caps side font and places champ for mid font. This scenario results in an earlier cap for P2 side font and inreases his nora by 12. OK Scenario: Round 1: P1 drops champ for middle font. P2 drops champ for side and mid font(High chance for SP and FS). Round 2: P1 moves closer to middle font and places champ for side font. Player 2 caps both fonts. In this Scenario the P2 has again 12 more Nora but also has Font bonus. ST Bonus comes in handy this way. Still an OK Scenario. Worst Scenario: P1 doesn't know the map and looses middle font Round 1: P1 doesn't know the map goes for side font first. P2 places champ for mid font and captures it the following turn. Leading in a most likely lost game. Conclusion: If you don't draw a 7 speed champion on turn 1 as Player 1, the game will be at a disadvantage for you. As Player 1 you will ALWAYS be behind when it comes to sending reinforcements to middle font. 7 Space vs 5 Space! If I am wrong on any of this information please correct me! @Sokolov Why was this intentional?
Best Scenario (v1): P1 drops a champ in between both sides so he can reach mid or capture side. P2 drops champ towards mid font. P1 and P2 fight for mid font, game proceeds like almost every other map. Best Scenario (v2): P1 drops a champ in between both sides so he can reach mid or capture side. P2 drops champ towards side font. P1 captures side font, deploys towards mid-font. P2 captures side font, deploys towards mid-font. P1 and P2 fight for mid font, game proceeds like almost every other map. ~ It's true that if P2 can drop 2 champs, P1 will be potentially down 12 nora without a 7 SPD champ, but based on the data, it doesn't seem like that this matters all that much over the course of a game, especially since P1, on his turn, maintains a variety of advantages (First Move, Nora Generated, etc.). Moving the top to 6 spaces will help with this (and make it less necessary to hedge). Maybe the data is hiding this fact somewhat since I can't get that level of granularity, maybe P1 wins most of the time UNLESS P2 drops 2 champs. But ultimately, on any given round, all else being equal P1 has more nora, more AP, gets to move first, gets to enter the font zone first, etc. This map intentionally skews some of that balance back towards P2 and STILL P1 wins more often.
thats because its KTHIR map. kf has 85% spd7 champs. they are not disadvantaged in this map play vs flying themes on pass, or fireeaters on ud map. or a lategame bg on fw. or vs aquatic on noraglade. there are some maps that give advantage to some bgs. you just need to adapt and play with a disadvantage. playin on same map always would be boring
Bad players can't take advantage of a 12 nora gain as well a good player, so game length is a flawed metric to look at for map influence if it isn't done in the context of high elo. That said, I really don't mind going second on every map except that one (unless vs ud or st), L because I use many 5 speed champs, elsari bazaar, and graveyard, which function well in second turn only if there's a way to take advantage of capping a 1 space font (or 3 space in the case of ele plateau. I don't think skewing such a large convection is necessary. Not many people can complain about going second, unless they are vsing ud st and maybe is. You already get more nora, and I believe a larger draw pool.
