Why do we have Racials?

What really needs to happen I think is that we have an expansion (or two) where we go back to underprinted racials and expand them a bit to add in some diversity.

 

I'll be honest. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "underprinted racials". So... I have no idea if I agree or not, because I don't know what it means.

 

Sok maybe I'm confused but your first paragraph seems to contradict with the third. It's more difficult to release racial-specific runes, but it's better to release runes for the people who say 'i love ninjas'. Am I misreading?

I guess then a question, especially in response to your second section, is WHO is this game designed for? Now it's in DOG's hands so I guess the question is sort of moot, but most GOOD collectible games design equally for the casual and 'tourney' players. Those 'more complex' themes everyone mentions like, as you said, 'I want to play with damage over time" are really just for the tournament players. Most casual players won't look at a *cough* GAME *cough* that way. That's been my experience in playing MTG and similar games, anyway.

So that means that at least 50% of the game needs to be designed for the 'lowest form of synergy'.

Or devs could put in a bit more work and make units that have both racials (fit in the lowest form) AND a higher-level ability synergy...

 

Something like Myx where we got like 8 runes (Matriarch, Broodlord, Spitter, Sandsnipe, Drone (if you count that), Adamant, and Slasher). Myx are a little better than some of the others because they can work with the Sand theme but that's basically what I'm talking about.

 

I would rather play a deck made up of thieves and assassins than a deck that has a bunch of random stuff that stealths. you mechanical theme guys are like a bane on immersion and the enemies of fun. btw, that's the answer to why we have racials. immersion and fun.

 

Yyyyyup. But that's the difference between the two types of people who play strategy games: people who play them for the 'game' aspect and people who play them for the math. The 'oooh, if I use THIS ability at this time I can get +0.15% damage!' *facepalm* I will never understand the desire to play that way. And Racials being of 'more simplistic' synergy types just proves to me that Sok at least is the numbers type.

 

yes, because those things that stealth couldn't be ninjas and assassins... no one said that. I said, quite clearly in fact, that bgs built around 1 mechanic such as a racial was overly limiting. Take barbarians with old savage, they all had it, and that was it to the theme. They had nearly no other abilities to tie them together, when they easily could of had multiple immersive abilities that increased the bgs theme specific mechanics. Ninjas who only had " class: Ninja" and " ninja training: when you have 5 ninjas in play this champion can throw a ninja star. CD2 ap:3" as their theme would be beyond stupid.

 

I agree, but that isn't what it sounded like you were saying at first. Sorry if I misread it.

Yes, easily accessible strategies are the hook, the more complex are the sinkers, so to speak. I wasn't saying to do away with complex strategies: only that each piece (rune) should fit within a basic strategy as well...IE, Racials. Chess has a lot of deep maneuvers and strategies...but every piece can contribute to the basic play of the game at every level. Pox has, historically, tended to assume that if you want to move beyond AI stomping, you must invest heavily in a small set of runes that are 'meta'. IE, good, just because they're good. Irrelevant of theme, faction, etc...

Also OP, your thread name is a bit misleading...

 

So we DO agree. Good. This is also the same reason I facepalmed at the idea of Elder Scrolls: Online, it took away the whole point of that series, which was immersion. "sigh".

 

It was made that way to lure people in. I knew who would see it and want to comment/flame. Keep that in mind people, I knew. I have been watching you for a long time. I know how you think. O_O Now I'm standing behind you. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

The thread may have taken some twisty turns along the way.

 

While I'd love to see racials for pretty much every race (especially since you can search for every race in the rune forge/checklist), I think some races are meant to be solely supplementary, and that's okay too. Take trolls for example, offering barely any racial synergy (that I've observed) besides Grintmaw Hymn. This makes trolls seem rarer lore-wise, and I feel as though cyclopes are the same way. They aren't the type of creatures that are meant to be swarmed, as it takes away from the majesty and size of them. It feels like those races should have better synergy with other races. A giant, badass cyclops is a lot more intimidating when surrounded by a swarm of little mooks due to the contrast than it is when surrounded by equally huge, equally badass cyclopes. This can be observed to a lesser extent with the G'hern and the Moga.

At least, that's my opinion on it.

 

I would argue that Trolls have lots of synergy (ie Strength of Body, Dampen, High Defense + Racial, Rock terrain, etc...). What I think is important with these abilities is that they reinforce building decks in such a way that they align with how those runes would be grouped together in a lore based situation. For example, the Kanen racials enforce that Kanen would attack together with other Kanen.

 

My personal belief is that all things should be able to be put together (almost), but some are harder to do than others. This is how I think it should go, from easiest to hardest to put together:
(the listed things are what the units have in common)
Faction+Race+Class
Faction+Class = Faction+Race
Faction = Class+Race
Class = Race

So, basically, the more they have in common, the easier it is to put them together, and Faction trumps everything basically.
There are some things that don't make sense lore wise, but that shouldn't make it impossible. So, Cyclops (which lore wise actually are supposed to be by themselves most of the time, with only other Cyclops around... Just saying.), should still be a viable theme. I agree though, I hate to see certain things automatically ignored because they can't synergize.

To me, the fix is NOT to reduce needed synergy, but to give MORE synergy out. Be generous with synergy stuff, just make sure it makes sense. For isntance, Witches, I so want to use the other humans with them, but it just isn't viable right now. So give the other humans more synergy, not just with Witches either, give them things like Boost: Undead, Invigorate, things like that.

Don't punish something because the other thing can't do it too, raise up the weak instead.

 

Make Foul Rite a better rune. nuff said

 

I actually put that one in this thread: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php...ompletely-op-with-just-one-small-change.3534/

I felt it would be better if it did the same effect, but either had an aoe 3 or a single target (rather than global).