Depreciation of themes causes stagnation in the meta

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Baskitkase, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Great recovery, very believable.
     
  2. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    So, after listening to the Q&A (thanks! @Moles1909 ) with @Gedden my fear is eased a good bit for two reasons:
    1) He seems to have recognized the importance of themes or at least how important themes are to his walletholders.
    2) I have a better understanding at the breadth of this revamp undertaking meaning that there will be much sway before a pendulum rests final, during which will give me (us) many opportunities to provide feedback.

    I would strongly suggest, that if theme-based abilities (sometimes they are racials, sometimes not) are on upgrade, then I hope that the other two upgrade choices in that line are inferior to the theme-based upgrade.
     
    Woffleet likes this.
  3. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    it's ok to say "dagda was right"

    i won't hold it against you
     
  4. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    define right
     
  5. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I think he meant to say "sexy as all get out". ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  6. MovnTarget

    MovnTarget Forum Royalty

    I believe in this instance right means "on the pdc and thus privy to info that had not yet been disseminated to the public."
     
  7. Prami

    Prami I need me some PIE!

    It's funny that I spent so much time pre-rework talking about faction/theme identity, and pretty much everyone scorned me. Now that everything is just a pile of stats/abilities & faction/theme barriers have been broken down, you feel that Pox Nora has lost much of it's life. Well, yeah... But this is what most of you asked for.

    I think we are slowly coming to an understanding, though you don't quite know how to articulate it. You don't want 2000+ runes that can be thrown together in any combination, since that is hectic, unbalance-able, and lacks flavor/identity.

    What you really want is a system similar to what hearthstone has, except that hearthstone has it rigidly enforced. A Pox Nora where what is balanced are entire themes instead of petty runes, which have their own mechanics/identity/flavor & Synergy (hearthstone heroes), along with runes that don't quite fit into any one theme or that people find to be useful cross-theme (neutral cards). You really don't want the chaos, because there's only what you build out of it. You want something predefined.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  8. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    People scorn you for who you are and how you act. Regardless of what you write it's already ruined.
     
  9. Prami

    Prami I need me some PIE!

    The game or me? Because I'm an internet personality mate. I don't exist.

    If you had any sense, you would stop attacking me and focus on the content of my posts alone. I highly suspect however, that you are simply a bigot and are looking for something to hate. The giant red heart is convenient for you.
     
    Legato likes this.
  10. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Point in case.
     
  11. Prami

    Prami I need me some PIE!

    Yup.
     
  12. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    That was just downright mean. It's not pre-ruined by who he is. It's just that many of us disagree with Prami's viewpoints. That in no way means that he can't say something that will be liked. It just implies that usually we won't like what he says. It's not even that he is wrong, it's just a matter of perspective. A game could be taken in the direction that Prami generally advocates, but most don't agree the game should be taken in that direction.
    I felt that the distinction needed to be made because you actually directed your post at who Prami is as a person. There is already too much awfulness in the world without adding cyberbullying to it all. Let's all keep our reactions in check a little bit please.
     
  13. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    I haven't a clue who he is IRL and couldn't care less, I was talking about who he is as far as his forum persona. I've never claimed to be nice or considerate, the ignore feature works wonders, just put me on it. I had Prami on mine and removed him for some reason, I've since rectified the error.
     
  14. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    i mean, maybe. in that i'm on the pdc as the sl rep after that bounced around some (i didn't want it, threw it to bp, bp was like LOL QUITTIN THOOOOO and threw it back to me. w/e meng) and thus i got a better feel for the way the revamp was being handled than others


    but the bulk of what i've been saying is that this *isn't done*. a point that only got through to him, i believe, after gedden descended from the heavens and said it himself. which leads me to suspect that perhaps there's no point trying to tell him in future, but hey. who knows. HE SEEMS OK RIGHT


    perhaps my message got lost or mishandled. i dunno.
     
  15. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Are you saying one should take you serious? I never got that memo.
     
  16. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    i'll take that as a "you're beautiful"
     
    Grand General Mosh likes this.
  17. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Real persona or forum persona doesn't really matter much in this case. (They both come from the same source anyway, if you stop and think about it.) Real persona or forum persona, you CAN still hurt the human behind it. Nice or considerate? You don't particularly need to be either (both go beyond what is required in this case), just as you don't need to be mean. I've met other people who weren't nice or considerate, but somehow still managed to not attack someone like that. Especially since if you take a step back you might notice the problem comes from the fact that everyone is being quite... energetic due to the revamp and everyone worries that a viewpoint they don't agree with might get listened to by the devs.

    Also, ignoring you based on such things doesn't solve anything, it just avoids conflict and ugliness. It means choosing to blind myself so I don't see negativity or viewpoints I don't agree with. It is, therefore, silly and weak.

    ----------------

    More to the subject of this thread, what I would ideally like to see is something in between how themes were before and how they are right now. Pre-revamp, they were filled with a lot of explicit/direct synergy, mostly in the form of abilities such as Boost, Surge and other stat increasing abilities. Right now, they have more implicit/indirect synergy (though I don't quite like it right now). I really want to see implicit synergy in the sense that a group of runes fit the same general idea and their abilities indirectly work with each other well, BUT with some direct synergy like Boost sprinkled in, especially when it comes to the "iconic champion" of a certain theme.

    But probably the most important point I want to make is that I really didn't agree with theme support mostly meaning direct stat increases. Surge: X promotes playing X race (walking a fine line here between themes and racials) and rewards you for having the entire bg made out of the X race, but what if you want to make a hybrid theme with that race and most of the synergy offered comes in the form of direct powerups? You end up with a severely weaker bg. To offer a personal example, I mained SL for a while and I realized I didn't fully like Dragons/Skywings and I also didn't really like Draksars either, but conceptually, I would love to have something in between, a Draksar/Skywing-Dragon hybrid bg (not flavour wise, but from a playstyle point of view). I couldn't do that and have a good bg because the thematic synergy was a direct one. But if some of the Dragons and Draksars had abilities that allowed for them to mesh a bit AND they added 1 or 2 direct support runes (just that, it really wouldn't take more in that scenario) like say...Dragon Handler, and you applied this sort of design to most themes, then I believe everyone would have a lot of fun and themes would be where they should.
    AlphaPsa mentioned that he tried to do something similar to what I'm saying with the Salaman racial (no idea what happened to that). He said he wanted to both make a full Salaman theme bg be viable and promote heavy equipment bgs that included some Salamans. I have no idea what the execution was/would have been, but this sort of thing sounds REALLY GOOD.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  18. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    We are using the same word for different things. I agree with you in what you are saying. I'M saying that I don't like decks built around using just the most op runes in the game. Those are made only for winning, and are no fun to play against. I don't want to play against someone who only plays for the sole purpose of winning, it doesn't matter if it is legitimate, it is simply no fun to play with people like that.
    I don't NEED to win to enjoy the game, but neither do I like being beaten down when there is nothing I can do about it. That just makes me question why I play at all.
     

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