Discussion: Patch Notes July 11th 2014

I think the Titans are just a case of double-compensation and that the stat formula change is, overall, a move in the right direction.

Here is a fun exercise for everybody, go to poxbase http://www.poxbase.com/#!/ability/82 and add up the nora costs of all the abilities involved in Titan. Then look at how much these abilities somehow cost when put together. It's pretty clear that this ability was costed when the devs looked at all the titans in the original stat formula and realized they had to find some way to artificially reduce their costs or else they would be ridiculously overpriced. Now that the stat formula is better, this ability stands out as a crazy price-depressor.

I would expect that, based on the community's reactions, the devs will make a small change to the stat formula and then be able to really reconsider the ability prices that they had originally developed. We should bear in mind that the pre-revamp balance was developed over probably 100 individual patches. It's a long road.

 

Well I feel like a dunce, I don't know how I missed that one. Well, that could've knocked a brick out of my regular wall of text...

 

Hilariously, this reduces the efficiency of the fact he is soulsift sacrifice-able again. Still pretty wack though, seems like the system needs a little tweaking.

 

Yeah, my point is that a regular combat champion with some positive abilities reachs 1/1 too easily, for example, hippo rider has 10 damage, 6 speed, 1-2 range, 1 def and 61 hp and upgraded with charge 3 and heavy charger costs only 62 nora (it's the most expensive build) it's a champion that has no downsides and is able to make charges for near 20 damage and it has that hp to nora ratio, there are other examples, but I think that is too much.
I don't know what kind of champions you mention with no other stats and 50 hp, but let me tell you that those passive champions like silverclan engineer and frostfall icewisp were crazy OP and in no way they should have 6 speed, 50 hp and 25 nora worth of abilities for a discount price.

 

To keep this example, if Poxbase is right on ability pricing, the Hippo is worth 49 nora of stat point. Probably a bit too cheap for 1-2 RNG and 61 HP. The same calculation applied to Goblin Brute, make it worth 29 nora of stats, a value that seems to be almost ok for those ugly stats...

So, probably the problem is with the HP/nora ratio in the formula.

 

Very crude complete champion change log:

http://poxbase.com/#!/changes/2

 

Thanks for that, it blows my mind even more how dumb* some of that stuff is when I can compare like that

*it's not personal, algorithm etc. Wonky results yada yada

 

Wow, Dreadnaught went down 29 points!
Faultbreaker down 26 points! After the first revamp I wanted to use Faultbreaker, but 121 nora was too much. Now he's down to 95 and is easier to work in.
Ash only went down 2 points.
Marsh Gargantua down 33 points!
Myx Broodlord down 30 points!
Voil Progenitor down 26 points! I don't think he would have seen use at 115 points.
Zeventrech from 140 to 122. Good change here.

As far as I can tell, just browsing through, Marsh Gargantua had the biggest drop.

 

Tbh what I am noticing is that there are a few outliers and a TON of units that I just think "yeah... that looks about right".

Even the Arctic Turtle who is 57 nora for about 73hp I think looks about right. Because he only does well if you have to attack him. Otherwise he is slow and very low damage. He won't kill a beater, but he'll tie them up if they have to fight him.

 

Idd.

My brother won't shut up about the Chronomancer for instance

I can see why. 41 Nora of her cost comes from her stats:
Dam: 0
Spd: 6
Rng: 1
Def: 0
Hp: 46

And... I really don't see how that stat line equates to over half her cost

 

Yeah, I'm guessing she's modified by about 20? Going from the Silverclan Tinkerer.

 

I can also guess the weight of fruitcake.

 

The only runes that I think are correct by the formula, but I still have an issue with, are things like the Dead Fairy:
http://poxbase.com/#!/champion/364

The stats and everything look right for the cost. But 38hp and 81 nora do not mesh well in terms of risk:reward.

I would call those individual cases though. But I assume it stems from fixing low hp champions costing very low nora. It also made the expensive low hp champions even more expensive, when the low health was meant to grant them a lower cost.

 

All in all, I think the Fae have been hit pretty hard. As you mentioned, the combination of flying ranged champions forces a certain price on the Fae but the abysmally low HP no longer brings the cost down appropriately. The NORA:HP ratio is so skewed they are generally too risky to play. There are some good Fairies but a deck full of them makes for an incredibly risky playstyle. Oh yeah, the loss of many of their survival skills makes them even riskier.

 

Yeah, but I would hope it could be fixed as an ability issue.

The rip witch (http://poxbase.com/#!/champion/1112) is almost a twin of the Dead Fairy, but she has speed swapped out for damage potential, making her far more worthwhile. Although at 84 nora I still might pass her up.

 

Different topic.

Even with the -15 nora on Titan, I can't see myself playing the Carrion Colossus. Is anyone else throwing him out? I mean, he has Ravenous Torrent, but it no longer spawns a carrionling, making it's interaction really daft and the other two upgrades in that slot make zero sense on a swarming 2x2.

Could certainly do with Torrent functioning with Propagate again and some other feasible upgrade options instead of Dead Eater and Assimilate. I would have said things like Vengeful or Protective, but the Carrionlings seem to be race: fesh rather than mutants.