(OLD) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

Okie, my thoughts so far:

I love the second upgrade line. I dislike the first one, because it presents her as a Siren, not a Banshee.
Siren = Calling people to their death (pulling, possession, etc)
Banshee = Signifying impending death (killing, demoralizing, etc)
If she is going to be the first FW Banshee, she needs to personify what a banshee is. Think Doom, Dampen, Demoralizing Descant.
I can't get behind "Bawling" either. It sounds like she's five years old and having a tantrum in a supermarket. Would just prefer "Banshee", or if we need to go with an alliteration, my suggestion for a prefix is "Baleful Banshee" (to threaten harm),

This currently just makes her a better version of the Ghoul. She literally has every defining ability he has: Damage Shield, Amplify Disease, Revel in Misery. But with more base Defense and HP.

I like the idea of her being a third Amplify champion, but this change makes her a copy of the Ghoul with more viability. (I wouldn't mind these changes on the Ghoul mind you, since he is almost there anyway)

I'm not sure why she needs a change right now. And why no longer a tank? Blinding also seems very overcosted at 12 nora right now as it only blinds the enemy for 2 turns, so at best it prevents a double attack.

I like everything about this. Love that his efficiency in terms of ramping up is decided in upgrade 1.

I like the new upgrades. Since the stitched are a race in themselves I wouldn't mind seeing all the Improve: X abilities split between their leaders.

Good start. But the enemy won't notice a 5 nora increase, so it won't stop any complaints.

Boon of the undead looks a lot fairer. I could live with the extra reveals.

This seems a bit harsh on having the odd non-worm unit in a Creep BG. If you add "if you control unit that is not an arthropod, worm and does not have Necrosis" that would let you avoid the situation by using Necro Hex. Or Necro Hex could add Worm as a race to the unit.

 

Why doesn't Anthropomancer have Heal Champion 2/3? Or just something more supportive than curse and expidite. It's not the difficult.

 

I cant remember wich green was, but one of them said FW shouldnt be able to heal, or at least have heal champion.

 

I'd also like to see High Warlock a zombie Lich but yeah...Eternal Lich just seems awkward to me, he LOOKS like a spirit in his splash, too. Maybe change his name and make him a spirit lich? Also, I think if Liches become a theme it should then be Liches and their servants, not quite like g'hern and moga more like a 1 lich 2 or 3 servant ratio. Runes like Lich Servitor, Lichling, and Dark Apprentice make good grovelling servants IMO.

 

I agree with Tea on the faction bonus.I don't think some more rune reveals are just as good as the other bonuses.Also,our faction is an attrition one just like mortemdeus said and the faction bonus should help towards that.Why not keep the cooldown reduction and have something like giving 1-2 nora at the beginning of every turn for every champion that died,or is in cooldown or something ?Or give 1 nora/turn for every boon of the undead champion deployed.
These are just some ideas,but I believe the costing should be first when it comes to helping our faction.

 

I think the FW bonus should change to state that only champions with boon of the undead gain the cooldown bonus, then add the additional reveals at the beginning of the game. That allows us to use Necro Hex to bring humans back faster, run less champs in a deck focused around undead, and still play attrition.

 

Well, I think Yobanchi got *some things right, but not **everything was right.

* He was right about needing to change the boon of the undead. I like his original proposition that was posted in regards to making boon lose fearless and such, making it the part of the faction that keep cooldowns low, which we need.

** He was wrong about two things:
_____1. The cooldowns, as in how low our cooldowns are, should not be nerfed. It should be consistent with how it is now. If it WERE your suggested -4 cooldown or something, that basically makes champs like afflicted corpse immortal, while expensive champs will have longer cooldowns than before. I don't find this to be a good idea. It is the most balanced it can be as it is, although I like the concept of moving it to being a "boon of the undead" specific thing.
_____2. The Faction Bonus, in turn, should be something that actually does something for you and helps you in the long term of the game. We are the attrition faction. So while I understand that having additional reveals helps early in the game, understand this, and I'll put it in bold because it's important;

Simply having additional reveals as your entire factions bonus is the worst possible faction bonus in poxnora when it comes to long term games, which is what our faction is supposed to be all about. In the late game scenario, when everything's revealed and things are dying and you're playing the attrition game- you will NOT gain any benefit from that as a faction bonus! Pick something better! Think Attrition! Nora! Benefit! Pain and Death! Not unfortunately anti-climactic clairvoyance at the beginning of a game.

 

Agreed. Rune reveals is the absolute worst faction bonus ever.

 

In order to try and not clog this up with one of my classic insurmountable walls of text, I'lll just post a link to the thread I dumped it in;

Great Wall of Witch Ideas (and other ideas)

Highlights are responses to what is currently listed as the working list of suggested changes, a rune by rune going through the FW roster on changes I think could benefit the witch theme as a whole, including what are currently non-witch runes, but could be.

Major Points I'd like to reiterate here;

Making the faction bonus extra rune reveals, at the beginning of the game, or all throughout if they introduce some kind of reshuffle mechanic, is a terrible, terrible, terrible, shortsighted and ridiculous solution. If anything, all factions bonuses should revolve around some kind of nora gen. FS could keep their flat generation, and we could use that as the baseline as the average other factions could produce. But here in FW, we could generate +X%/+Y% based off of champ deaths on the board (After rolling the CD reduction into Boon), KF could distribute the +1spd/ap cap as needed across it's champs, and generate based on spaces moved, SL for damage taken, UD for damage dealt, etc. (All part of a more detailed explanation I plan on dropping in General)

Our focus on the next tweak round should very much be focused on one area at a time. Trying to toss these buff rounds all across the faction is a very inefficient use of these buff rounds. I'm in favor of tackling making witches a more concrete and solid theme before moving on to the next. Spirits are mostly fine, Liches could use some tweaking, zombies may not be prime, but they're runnable, skeletons are fine for the most part, and we need to give creepers some time to shake out before we start picking at them again. Vampyres....well, we'll figure that out when it's their turn.

If I've learned anything in my years on this world, it's that you don't give up anything you don't have to. Asking or even demanding that we suggest nerfs inside our faction is a ludicrous notion. If anything, the devs, or the Council, or whoever can keep an eye out for runes in our faction that are getting the most complaints, concatenate a list of offenders, and weed out those that are showing up due to more kneejerk reaction than anything. From that list, we can try and apply solutions that can keep the spirit of the runes without gutting them.

 

Lets see... ^^

I like it. I feel like Pain Curse could be an upgrade to allow her to be used outside of witches and also stifle her overall power within the witch theme a bit as a trade off.

Depression won't see much use with Sonic Roar having a similar cost and less disruptive effect.

My suggestion would be replacing Depression with Pain Curse and placing Frightful Aura 2 on base. That way she has more general support on base.

I agree with Mercer that Pain Curse would need to change. Maybe a global cooldown?

*thumbs up*

I think Rabid 2 does more overall damage than Black Death in both his forms. It may be worth keeping it.

Quest Kill is unlikely to give his second form the +3 damage and 1 defense if he gains it in his first form.

I personally like the idea that his first form is vulnerable to magic and his second form is immune. I think it is a nice way of evening him out, cost-wise.

Is this meant to be spells from both players? Just checking.

I think it would be better with an actual curse interaction. In a curse BG, you almost never need to actually curse something.

I think we could say "When a unit without race Arthropod or Worm who does not have this ability is destroyed, your shrine's Deployment Zone is reduced by 1."

Was thinking about it. And this lets you freely place non-creep units in a Creep BG. Their death is something you have a lot more control over. This also provides a barrier for slipping a couple of creeps into largely non-creep BGs to expand the zone.

Also makes Necro Hex more useful.

I would rather see something a little less OP than +2 Speed, especially considering the ranged units.

Maybe "All friendly Worms and Anthropods that move within your shrine deployment zone have Siege, +2 def and Accrue. Units deployed in this zone gain the benefit at the end of the turn."

Though I imagine I'll be in the minority here

 

Would quest: kill enemy reset after lich born kicks in? I like the idea of black death becoming a high level zombie thing.

Not bad either...though should we be messing with stitched without UD's input?

Boon is moving in a good direction but I would like to ditch the disease immunity. I still think we need different abilities for different undead.

How about something easier? Allied worms and anthropods in the shrine deployment zone gain necrosis and dead eater

 

Please no. Constructs get disease and poison, why can't dead keep disease? Disease means dis-ease. A body not at ease. Undead are about at not at ease as it gets, disease incarnate.

 

When I think disease I think bacteria, bacteria can eat the ever loving crap out of bones just like it can anything else. Also, if we get rid of immunity we could give more undead disease eater, giving us an alternate heal. It would also make the damage type more useful in mirror matches and make the decks more viable since we can damage more.

 

Check my ideas for improving disease damage in the Lich ideas thread. Second, and I hate using other lore in Pox, but popular zombie mythos is that the living are repulsed by what animates the dead, from creatures as complex as large animals down to microbes, so to me, immunity disease is one of items that fits perfectly on Boon.

 

It just dosnt make any sense that an undead can get a flu.

 

ok I have read all 3 pages of posts and it seems to be everywhere from single rune fixes to faction bonuses. Instead of throwing out random thoughts can we get an idea of what the greens are proposing for our faction and work form the inside out instead of listing stuff that wont be implemented.

 

I thought @yobanchi was giving us the propositions. But does he even know what they have in mind? And more importantly does he have any say in what they do, or is this like some sort of electoral college where our suggestions become Yobanchi's suggestion, from which the greens consider the suggestion?

 

True, spitballing is fine but unless there's some better direction, that's all it can ever be.

So, some finite questions that need to be answered;

How broad of a range of things are we looking at being able to adjust?
--As in, are we really going to have an opportunity to possibly suggest new abilities, faction bonus changes, or is it just another round of swapping existing abilities and stats?

Just how much 'space' are we being allotted for these changes? One or two spells, five or six champions?

In light of these things, instead of assuming what we'd be fine with working on first, maybe attach a poll where we can pick what theme (or general, hit everything) we would like to work on.

And since some stitched runes got brought up, is the FW forum going to end up being the custodians for changes on their behalf, or are they just going to get adjusted as the FW and UD communities bring up ideas for them? Because if it's the latter, I'd say we just need to respectfully decline adjustments for them, or propose that we get full custody.

 

How many diseases can you think of that are caused by bacteria? Most diseases are genetic or acquired by a failing body, no?

I do like the idea of more disease eater though.

 

Perhaps, but do any of the non bacterial/viral diseases spread by contact or aura?

You must not have been a fan of world war Z

Our faction is attrition. We have a lot of people saying witches should be a thing but other than that, undead attrition victory is what we are aiming at.