(OLD) Next Patch Feedback Suggestions

There are some great threads popping up that I'll be reading later on today…mainly that big witch wall X_X.

As for what is going on I'm basically taking consolidated ideas and for the most part proposing them.

Once proposed others on the inside council members get a crack at feedback then finally the Design team decides to implement what they find relevant with their plans (which are unknown to me).

This is why Creep was suggested but not implemented 100% as noted as this may or may not be due to future plans which again are unknown to me.

I'll be revising the OP when I get back from work and maybe making a section of Mention or something.
So far it looks like people want the majority of attention devoted to witches.

 

My apologies on the huge wall of witch and other feedback, I just believe in being thorough and efficient, and if I leave out even the small ideas, we might miss out on chances to get a few extra tidbits tossed our way that might improve our quality of unlife here in the Wastes.

 

But SERIOUSLY. Is it that we must make a topic in order for you to take what we're saying seriously? Did that WHOLE spiel about focusing on FW core elements and faction priorities go un-noticed because someone made a topic about something else, and now you're gonna assume we mostly care about witches? Honestly man what crack are we collectively smoking right now?? I don't give a fraction of a Firk about witches and I don't even consider them part of any of this factions core- they aren't even undead. And even when you fix them they won't fix this factions issues at it's core.

 

@TeaScholar
I'll be brief as I'm just commenting while I eatz mah fud. This is what I've gathered from the thread since my last post:

1. Witches are a great candidate to prioritize for the next immediate patch
2. Liches are a great candidate to discuss for future patches (currently favor building most themes around 1-2 Liches)
3. Creepers need to be addressed, but should wait for dust to settle while attention is focused elsewhere (I somewhat disagree, but I'm in the minority)

I agree with yobanchi's assessment insofar as the next patch should devote the majority of its changes to Witches. They are one of the more clearly defined themes that work had already begun on. Meanwhile, we continue to discuss Liches with the goal of establishing which Lich belongs where and the best set of high impact changes to apply.

 

Very well, @Entrepidus that seems to make sense. I was afraid it was going to be happening all at once.

 

Dark Seductress and veiled flight note:

Currently, when dark seductress stealths, she gains flying via veiled flight.

Flying and flight are not the same ability.

Flying: This unit ignores restrictions and penalties imposed by terrain and may move across chasm spaces without dying. Immune to the effects of Lumbering unless Grounded.

Flight: This champion is Flying and has two additional ranks of Sentry

My next patch suggestion: Dark seductress to gain flight over flying via veiled flight. Those two additional ranks of Sentry come in handy. Not to mention the ability is called veiled flight and not veiled flying.

 

Flying is a condition and Flight is an ability, it's cleaner and more balanced for veiled flight to give the condition and not an ability that grants the condition.

 

That would mean Veiled Flight would not match up to Sonic Flight and Arctic Flight.

I think the idea was establishing new types of flight that don't involve granting the Flight ability. I know Veiled Flight was already there, but it is still part of the precedent that has now been set.

It could maybe do with granting an additional effect though, sure. pretty lackluster atm. Maybe "This unit gains Flying and Veiled when Stealthed."

Veiled (This unit does not lose stealth when damaged)

Then add Veiled retroactively to Murk ^^

 

Well, I am going to plug my ears and sing lah lah lah then Not a fan of witches nor do I have the resources to play them. I will wait till the next round then. Not saying I am upset by it, just that I do not have much input or experience with them so I will sit witch theme adjustments out.

 

Here's an easy extra fix.
Race Spirit added to Animated Blade.

 

To be honest, I haven't noticed it previously. Thanks for noting it.

Now as for the proposals.

Only one witch? I think the theme needs more than reworking one witch to be competent. With the change to elsari coven we're back to the level before the revamp, so basically we're back to square 1.

Honestly, I think the overall problem with this proposal thread is how widespread the buffs are. I know we can't just focus on one theme or player, but trying to pick a bit of everything will dilute the buffs either into creating crutches or no relevant changes at all for all the themes involved. IMO, we should pick 2, or 3 themes and focus on buffing them through this 8 changes. It sucks for some of us, but that's the only way to properly develop the faction.

Examples?

- Cut down the whole sword of shadows. Isn't that a good equipment, and spirits are among the best themes on FW, if nothing but haunting grip. I know flavour wise it fits and have been discussed previously, but balance wise it wouldn't help that much. Between haunt and wake the dead, I think we have enough sources to generate cheap meat.
- Stitched first? Well, I have seen threads talking about liches and vampires, zombies and spirits are solid and don't get me started about witches. Stitched? Not a single thread here. Heck, on the first page of the split forum there isn't a single thread about stitched either. Even creepers worms attracted more attention than that. I would say cut it down too.
- I'm unsure about the collection of souls buff. As I said, spirits are solid right now, so I don't see the need for buffing it. However, it looks like people are supporting this change, so who knows? In the worst case, I would say cut it down too, but if more people support it, well, its up to you.

Now, as for the rest:
- Bane banshee seems interesting, just one question: would magelord keep pain curse? I don't see any mention to him. I think most of us agreed pain curse would need to be nerfed if gets implement into another champion, or be completely removed from the magelord if a witch ever gains it. Also, depression affects both sides, and witches already have low damage, so if anything, I would ask to get that changed to something more relevant to the witch theme. Personally, I would ask to change it to fascinate. If a champion gets pulled by fascinate and move into DMZ, elsari coven proc and applies curse over and over for every tile. It's a neat trick and would like to see it.
- Crown of nightbarbs: It sounds interesting, although a bit lacking. Why are you removing the healing aspect? "The closest champion with a different owner heals 10hp". I think it would be more attractive if we apply a stronger debuff (pariah, maybe?), or add another condition, like faithless or defiled. What about decaying?
- Only additional reveals as FF bonus will suck, period. It won't benefit champions in combat like UD, it won't generate additional resources like FS, it won't impact the opponent playstyle, like IS. The only thing we would gain from that would be attracting trick deck players, and we already attract enough hate.

May I add:
- Can we review the forsaken follower? She currently have next to no synergy with the witch theme, but the ability curse (which is a waste of upgrade) and for 79n, she feels quite overpriced considering what she brings to the table, specially if we remember she have vulnerable at base. Proposal:

Base: attack magic, pawn, shadestrike
Upgrade: Mystic push, Spell aegis, Designate scapegoat (Other alternative: favor)
Upgrade: Summon festering corpse, Summon skeleton 2, Sever summons

My concept is to made her a champion that both, finally brings some shadestrike into the theme, and also plays as a disruptive force with some staying power. The first upgrade line fits into the "mess with the opponent spells" and have some synergy with shadestrike, while the second keeps the "rewarded with power" over the dead part from the text lore which combo with pawn. I prefer to have some variety rather than one entire upgrade line dedicated only to different ranks of some ability, specially if said is a piece of carp like curse. Oh, btw:

- Curse upgrade: We did a proposal, and we had several ideas to bring it into playability. And the developers wasted resources on modifying curse from utter-sheet to still sheet. No, I won't suggest yet another change. What I do suggest is to remove the danged ability from upgrades at all. Gone, bye bye, don't let the door hit it on the way out. I don't care if all the units that lose curse gain the same boring "rend 1/2/3" upgrade path (that would be still a buff, considering rank 1 of rend is worth 3n vs 5n on curse 1), or some new line like hex and magical attack for everyone, or just shave 5n from all the affected units. Just remove curse from every single unit that currently have it as upgrade. If the best thing the devs can do with their resources is to tweak curse from crap to crap, then don't bother and just get ride of it. Yes, sorry, but is that bad.

 

I'd just like to say popping in here during the week I kept asking myself why hasn't a poll been mad eon what theme to focus on and just focus that?

That would cut out all this fractured feedback and people would have solid numbers backing why one theme is getting focused over another not just feelings.

One week of poll results should have been enough to get a good idea of who wants what. Make the poll, make the list stick to the list. Makes everyone job easier.

 

Thank you all for your feedback... We will be focussing on witches to help cut down on fractured feedback as exiled tyrant suggests.

I've updated the main post but have not yet fully gone through all the witch suggestions. I expect a lot more to come out of the woodwork.

Please note that while we have 8 slots some of those slots may be required for other adjustments meaning that prioritization should also be made as to 1 being most needed and 9 being first to cut if needed.

This way if other themes or nerfs are required I can cut the weakest suggestions.
I'm still tempted to work in a Necrosis/wormlord tweak.

 

you made some good points, i will retract my patch suggestion.

 

To be honest I hate veiled flight and think it should just be outright removed.
Does anyone really like veiled flight? I feel like it just sandbags her so hard and there really isn't that big of a boon to have a unit that can only fly when stealthed since unstealthing is so easy meaning she will be getting caught in terrain and for what?

 

i like Dark Seductress as is. Just me though. Wretched Witch might be a good shroud, breath, cloud candidate.

 

I just crutch on her having veiled flight in my current bg, do not listen to me, i am selfish.

 

I like veiled flight as a concept. I think the ability should be buffed rather than removed. If not buffed then the Nora cost could be seriously reduced.

 

Just give her dark raven form and call it a day

Also, I always thought that having three upgrade trees was so a rune could go along three different themes, not so it could be 6 different costs for the same position (and really have no difference between the trees)

P.S. WOOOO I have almost half the runes mentioned! I will comment on them when I have the time later today.

 

THIS.